Something Witty

Miss Magdalena​(sub female){FreeSpirit} - I would also be curious about this... since I have strong feelings against that word... but I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing the other side.

Hisproclivity​(sub female) - Same MM!!

Redtailedkitty - My thought is that “training” is teaching the sub how the Dom(me) likes things. Their preferences, what pleases them, how they like to be pleased, how they want to be served. Some that I know that have training “programs” have very specific needs, desires. They have a long list of rules and introduce them in a certain way and in a certain timing.

GrimmMaiden​(dom female){GrimmOryx} - But why? Why is that formally called training and not just part of the relationship development. Even if it's specific. Like, how they like their eggs. Why is it training and not just feedback on the performance/task for improvement?

Redtailedkitty - A more formal dynamic maybe. If the Dom(me) is a very structured person? If their desires are super specific and strict. Or if it is to see if they are compatible for what they both need. I’ve heard that too.

In a relationship you discuss wants and needs and for the most part feel things out as you go. For D/s, for some, it is highly structured and there are rules and strong consequences for breaking them. But first those rules need to be learned. And to reinforce them punished or rewarded as appropriate. Kind of like a boot camp. Again this is based on Those I’ve talked to and from what I’ve read. I don’t have personal experience with it as Sir is not that way and we’ve been together so long that no a whole lot of “training” needs to be done. There would be more I think if he had the time and energy to dedicate to establishing more structure.

It could also just be just a terminology usage to make it sound more formal, official? To help with the mindset.

GrimmMaiden​(dom female){GrimmOryx} - That makes sense. The part about making it formal. And I guess it's not uncommon for people within the culture/community to be very formal about it in general.

Redtailedkitty - Especially if they are Old Guard.

GrimmMaiden​(dom female){GrimmOryx} - Ah. Gotcha.

GrimmOryx​(sub female){Maiden's S} - RTK, I think I explained this exactly the same way. Lol

Lazuli - GM I know I don’t roll with the “right”abbreviations behind my name to giving a great explaination on training. In truth while I’ve been in a relationship with a Dom and he did identify as such the word training never came out in the three years we were together. I guess I was trained? I mean we had hours of conversation about preferences and likes and dislikes. Things he expected from me things I expected from him I guess we trained each other in a sense! But one of the reasons I neglected to stick with any specific role is because after being in a relationship with a Dom I ended up marrying a vanilla guy who didn’t speak the language and oddly enough it felt exactly the same to me. Granted he was a kinky guy but really I felt like every single relationship even outside of sexual ones involved two people teaching each other “training” one another. As a child my parents, taught to address my elders as Mr. So and so and Things like that. And ya know sometimes I think some of this stuff is just bloated up garbly goo, but ehh I guess we all like a little pomp and circumstance sometimes! Now if only I could “train my neighbor to quit letting their ugly little dog to stop shit in my flower garden!

NiccyKitten​(sub female){Owned} - My Domme finds things like new positions to sit in, or enforce rules like "don't talk with your mouth gagged." It's not really about the training to learn new positions or new rules. When I behave and do what she's training me to do she calls me a "good girl." Sometimes said to me in her Domme tone, and sometimes a soft whisper that caresses my ear and sends my heart racing. When she gives me a command I respond "Yes, my love" which has much the same effect on her. Submission is intrinsic to my sexual being, it requires no education. It's a part of the D/s dynamic that makes training exciting for both parties involved. If either of us didn't like training, we wouldn't do it. That "Yes, my love" / "Good girl" exchange between the two of us is something we crave from each other.
Anyways I hope I've helped rather than further confusing the issue. If you want to ask me questions don't hesitate to do so!

GrimmMaiden​(dom female){GrimmOryx} - My Domme and I do the same thing. Yes ma'am. Good girl. Yes, my love. I don't consider that training, however. That's just part of our dynamic and part of our agreement. She makes rules and, if I agree to them, she implements them. That's still not training to me. That's a discussion. I don't agree to anything until I understand it. Thus, no training on it. It sounds like what you're calling "training", we call "playing". All of what you mentioned would take place during sex or "play" for us. Some aspects are present 24/7. Like ma'am and good girl. Duties and responsibilities. But there was no training needed. Your dynamic sounds very similar to ours actually.

NiccyKitten​(sub female){Owned} - We both like it when I struggle a bit, so I was struggling one day during our bondage play sessions. But this time she pulled on my harness to get me to stop and told me "good girl" when I stopped. It was a rush when I realized she was training me. Yeah, it's play. It's a little bit of a different brand of play than the usual play we've had so far, but it's mainly play. The main point is that it's something we both love and get great satisfaction from.

GrimmMaiden​(dom female){GrimmOryx} - Ah. I get it. That makes total sense. Training as part of play in that instance

NiccyKitten​(sub female){Owned} - Yep! It's like a new avenue in our BDSM adventures together. It's not so much stuff I have to learn, but just a new type of play we get to have together. Maybe you can talk about it with Oryx and you two can try it together sometime? you two might like it. If it doesn't work then it doesn't have to continue. Btw I love how you two have each other's names on your collar fields on this site, that's just adorable and I'm happy for both of you. I love that feature.

GrimmMaiden​(dom female){GrimmOryx} - Thanks! We do quite a bit of what you're talking about. I had misunderstood your explanation initially. Totally makes sense now.

NiccyKitten​(sub female){Owned} - After a bit of further reflection on the topic of training, I would like to add that by my Domme and I having our newfound training fun, I have learned a lot. No, she didn't sit down and teach me anything about my submission. However, I must say that I have *Discovered* much about my own submission, and likewise, she has discovered more about her Dominance. It's another exciting journey of discovery we get to share together. Bottom line is that we're two lucky happy girls in love and having fun together.

Savida​(other female) - I'm with you GM. I don't feel like laying an already existing set of rules on me is a thing that really works for me.

NiccyKitten​(sub female){Owned} - To clarify, the new rules my Domme sets like "Don't talk with your mouth gagged" aren't really rules. They're just for funsies to give us something to train me on. She actually likes it when I try to talk through a gag, it's part of the struggling bit we both like. It has helped me get a better understanding of some things my Domme likes though and how to please her. I always want to give my Domme as much satisfaction as I can because one it thrills me to thrill her; and two, as my Domme she takes, but still gives me so much. She always looks out for me and makes sure I'm safe, healthy, and satisfied.

Savida​(other female) - Of course of course. I mostly mean that I personally don’t feel cared for when it’s someone I don’t know well trying to stuff me into a generic box made for someone else. Someone I know and like slowly introducing things that make sense to who I am...that would feel different to me, I think.

Although I’m still the sort who bristles at protocol, formality, strictness and rules, so maybe I’m just wild and untamable. :P only time can tell, but they definitely can’t go too hard out the gate or it’s a turn off for me.

I do totally understand that structure is not the great evil to most people that it is for me, and envy those people and the peace they seem to find through structure more than you could know!

Redtailedkitty - I was always abhorrent of structure/routine and commonly would say I’m not a routine type of person. And while I still have to have flexibility because of my job and kids I’m finding that some level of continuity in my schedule and expectations is helping reduce my stress levels enormously.

Savida​(other female) - I’m glad for you. I think it’s all about context for me. Or who knows, maybe I’ll never settle into a routine and it’s just how I’m wired! *shrug*

Redtailedkitty - Yep. I use the term routine loosely. Structure even is pretty loose. Just too may variables in play. LOL But the little bit there is helps. 40 years before it happened. LOL Sir didn’t think it would work at all. LMAO

Bunnie - I always thought training meant learning etiquette and protocol. And also maybe being taught about the history of bdsm etc. Leather families for example, can have quite strict “guidelines,” which would require learning and a form of “training.”

Bunnie - *These are based more on Old Guard concepts*

GrimmMaiden​(dom female){GrimmOryx} - And I thought of training as a way to "teach submission". Which I just couldn't grasp. I've seen it written here in that context and I just don't get it. To me, it alludes to forced submission rather than willful. It makes me think that if someone needs trained then perhaps they're required to do something they aren't ok with doing. Or that by the time training is complete, they've lost part of themselves. Training, in this context, is defined very differently than learning for me. When I picture someone being trained, in the sense I've read here, I picture an attempt to break someone down little by little. It's a very negative connotation. I know. And I realize my understanding of it is not THE understanding. That's why I'm curious. The way it's portrayed in a few places here doesn't sound pleasant at all. But that could very well just be the persona. I hope, in the cases of the instances to which I'm referring, that conversations take place and everyone is in agreement on what will transpire. It just sounded kinda scary in a few places.

Redtailedkitty - I agree with you. There are dynamics, it seems to maybe revolve more around M/s more than D/s, where there is a breaking down or stripping process and then remolding into what is desired. In some cases is is horribly terrifying because one or the other haven’t a clue what they are doing and the damage that can be caused. But when both parties truly know what they want and agree to it and they are both educated on what is involved and have done their research and hopefully have some experience (preferably a lot!) ... it’s what works for them. I read a blog on Fet from a slave’s perspective and nice i gained a lot of understanding and insight about this type of dynamic. I wish I had bookmarked it!!! From another friend, while I’m still trying to wrap my own brain around it and I still am not sure I can say I am okay with it, it is well thought out, thoroughly planned, discussed and agreed too. An example is a desire on the subs part to start anew. Their past was unbearably horrible and by breaking them down and rebuilding them back up, they can be free and start over. Again...while I can see the appeal, I personally feel it is firstly too dangerous and secondly our past is what makes us who we are. Our scars are beautiful. One can never truly be free without embracing it, accepting it, forgiving and moving on. I think the theory might be that the breaking down process is forcing them to come to terms or face those triggers/tragedies.

NiccyKitten​(sub female){Owned} - Redtailedkitty, I really like what you said: "Our scars are beautiful." That carries a lot of true meaning. My past, like many, is riddled with hurt, pain, and sadness. However, it is partly because of these scars that I am who I am now. Without learning some lessons the hard way in the past, without these scars I could not have built the wonderful loving relationship I have with my Domme now.

Redtailedkitty - Nicky you might like my blog post about scars. It has a video about scars and a Japanese tradition. :)

NiccyKitten​(sub female){Owned} - Arigato gozaimasu!

GrimmMaiden​(dom female){GrimmOryx} - Red, I understand that. It is possible someone would want and/or need to be completely broken down and then rebuilt. That's something I hadn't thought of before. I can see where that would fit. And I agree it could be dangerous if one or all parties weren't careful.
Our scars are beautiful. I firmly believe every decision I've made and roadnice traveled has had a part in making me who I am. I wouldn't want to forget that. The practice of BDSM certainly is cathartic for some. So I can understand how it would be helpful in that instance.

Redtailedkitty - Just had another thought. Again from research, reading and talking to others, training can be a way for building up, improving a sub for their own benefit. Say they have some bad habits or want to be a better version of themselves and they need help to do that. The Dominant can help with that using a Sir to of training. Like working with a personal trainer for weight loss. A way of working in a more focused manner to reach goals. This is actually something I desire help with. Structure to relieve the chaos induced stress. Something I’m horrible at doing on my own. Weight loss too actually. Because I don’t have a whole lot of self-discipline and because it’s more fun with another.

Savida​(other female) - I think a lot of people feel the way you do, Red.

I think I’m just an odd fish on this one. Because of my personal experiences someone getting involved in those areas of my life would feel bad for me— it would feel like they didn’t like who or what I am and wanted to change me, regardless of if that would be the intent. I think I just carry a lot of scar tissue when it comes to this particular area at this time, and won’t say I’d never be able to let someone else help me with those kinds of personal goals, but I’d have to understand that they actually really liked the person I already am on a very deep, concrete level to let them even begin to try to help me with those kinds of personal goals. :)

Redtailedkitty - I can totally see that from if it was the Dominant wanting to change you. What I was trying to say and maybe doing it from my phone first thing this morning wasn't the best idea, is that these goals for bad habits or even just wanting to grow as a person come from the submissive and the Dominant is helping the submissive to achieve those goals....wanting to help the submissive to be the best person that they (the submissive) wants to be. Does that make more sense? And absolutely, that can ONLY be done by someone you have a deep connection with and that you can trust implicitly with that part of yourself. There has to be a ton of communication going on and the dominant needs to be a very observant person. For example, I have a lot of deep seeded anger. I want to get rid of it. Doing so scaring the bejeezus out of me. None of the traditional methods have worked. However, my Sir is not into mind games which is a method I touched on above regarding tearing down and building back up. So if this is something I would want to persue....it would have to be with someone else and that may or may not ever happen because of that level of trust needed. And as a submissive I would have to make absolutely sure that the Dominant I chose to do that with knew what the fuck they were doing by vetting them with references. But things like needing accountability and structure - those are totally things that can fall into my Sir's capabilities and desire to want to help me achieve those goals. He is totally happy with how I look but he knows that I am not happy and that there are some health concerns and so he wants to help. Does that make sense? Now there are some behaviors that do irritate him or at least do not bring him pleasure. We discuss and if we are both in agreement we come up with a plan to "train' them out of me. To me that is more relationship oriented that we would do in a vanilla or BDSM. Now it does totally raise red flags with me when a profile or a conversation with a Dom(me) says they will train you to be how they want you to be. I would never contemplate a relationship with them. Though if there was a connection I would find out exactly what they MEAN by that as sometimes it is a matter of not being able to effectively communication in written form. LOL It also raises red flags with me when a sub says they want to be WHATEVER the Dominant wants. That is just not realistic. We are still human and have wants and needs of our own and any good Dominant is going to recognize that and want to fulfill those desires/needs just as much as their own wants and needs.

Savida​(other female) - This makes a ton of sense! I just think, at this time at least, I wouldn’t be able to allow someone else to help with those kinds of goals—it would be too triggering for me.

I think it would take a LOT for me to even consider bringing something like that up to a dom or anyone else!

But for people that feel comfortable with that and capable of it, that sounds very healthy.

For me, right now, because of who and how I am, that kind of thing breeds resentment, not “I feel cared for.”

I totally get what you were saying though, I think it’s just not for me at this point. :)

Redtailedkitty - Just had another thought. Again from research, reading and talking to others, training can be a way for building up, improving a sub for their own benefit. Say they have some bad habits or want to be a better version of themselves and they need help to do that. The Dominant can help with that using a Sir to of training. Like working with a personal trainer for weight loss. A way of working in a more focused manner to reach goals. This is actually something I desire help with. Structure to relieve the chaos induced stress. Something I’m horrible at doing on my own. Weight loss too actually. Because I don’t have a whole lot of self-discipline and because it’s more fun with another.

GrimmMaiden​(dom female){GrimmOryx} - That's a good kinda training. I can get behind that. In fact, oryx and I are doing something like that within our dynamic. Except.... I GET TO BE IN CHARGE! It's workout stuff for health and strength. And I know how to do it. Workout and nutrition. So I get to be the one who controls the exercises and when we do it. And I get to yell things like "FIVE MORE! LET'S GO! DON'T YOU QUIT ON ME!"

Redtailedkitty - LOL. See and I need that push to do it. Once I get going I'm fine, but getting started and then not letting a break in routine derail me. I know what works for me and we do argue about that because he thinks differently. But then it becomes a discussion. :)

GrimmMaiden​(dom female){GrimmOryx} - If you need someone else to motivate you I'm happy to send ya encouraging messages! Or help with workout and nutrition plans. I love that stuff. Accountabilibuddy.

Redtailedkitty - I may message you when I’m ready to give up or eat shit that I shouldn’t. Like last night. I was so possessive because while I’m eating super healthy, drinking a ton more than I ever do and working in some walking (about all I can do right now) I not only gained back the 5 pounds I lost, I gained two more!!!! I was so angry that I temporarily said fuck it and ate a whole bunch of cereal. lol

GrimmMaiden​(dom female){GrimmOryx} - That's a good kinda training. I can get behind that. In fact, oryx and I are doing something like that within our dynamic. Except.... I GET TO BE IN CHARGE! It's workout stuff for health and strength. And I know how to do it. Workout and nutrition. So I get to be the one who controls the exercises and when we do it. And I get to yell things like "FIVE MORE! LET'S GO! DON'T YOU QUIT ON ME!"

GrimmOryx​(sub female){Maiden's S} - The only formal training I can truly imagine are for certain kinds of submissives. We’ve talked about this at length, I think. Service subs- those who perform acts of submission (and these are varied, not necessarily household oriented and typically not sexual conduct). A dom/me would need to train and instruct how those duties are to be performed, give itineraries of daily routines, and depending on the d/s dynamic, punishment for failure to complete or complete up to snuff isn’t uncommon. Punishment is actually what you and I think of as fairly mild, though distasteful. Time outs, sometimes in a box or closet, light or medium slaps, sometimes slaps of genitalia, and often humiliation or degradation if this is agreed to, but not enjoyable by the sub.
The other sub type is much less common and has more formal training. It’s much more like a geisha or courtesan and often trained by the most senior sub in a group. I’m not terribly familiar with the practices there because, frankly, it doesn’t interest me. I’m not a collector.
I’m sure Dollmaker would have a lot of great input on his training and transformation. He’s always very informative!