Verbal humiliation

Verbal humiliation

Angel07​(sub female){Owned} • Dec 15, 2017

There are many of us who like being mentally degraded and humiliated. Being called names turns you on and makes you weak in the knees. There is an instant desire that bubbles up when you hear those names from the person you look up to the most, and all you wanna do is worship and please your dom/master in whichever way possible.
But in the contrary you know that the names you are being called is not what and who you truly are and it shames you the way your body reacts to it. But despite all these you still can't help being turned on.

I'd love to know your thoughts on verbal humiliation and why it turn you on if it does.

Subdesires​(sub male) • Dec 28, 2017

I think that it is just something else that gets into your head and puts you into your place. You know that if you lash out in retaliation there will be consequences. I don't get turned on being called really degrading names like a "worthless piece of shit" or something but being called a "pussy" or hearing things like, "You are just a pussy away from being a girl" makes me feel very vulnerable. I think that the timing also comes into play as well as the tone of voice. It also works the other way when you get a little pat on the butt and are called something very sweet. What is funny for me is that when I am in trouble I hear, "Bad boy" but when I do something to please her she says, "Good girl." Both make me flutter.

Re: Verbal humiliation

Taramafor​(sub male) • Dec 29, 2017

First of all I don't get "turned on". Not all the time anyway. It doesn't all have to be sex focused. Secondly it can be who and what you truly are as well. Especially if it's lifestyle. Can be temporary, can be permanent.

the time being degraded had the most meaning was when I was called "useless". It started as an inside joke about how I'm useless at something. Let's mull over what "useless" means. It doesn't necessarily mean "Not wanted or cared for because you're useless". In this case it's the reverse. I kept being called useless and I mulled it over in my head. I thought about how useless I had been in the past (don't ask. Long story). About How others consider themselves useless and want to not be a burden. then it clicked. I was useless yet kept around anyway. And it was being said in affectionate and loving tones. It really grew on me. Eventually I was no longer called that but that also meant something. I was finally considered "useful". Which isn't "better" then being useless. It simply has a different meaning.

Ended up stuck on "dog". Loyal and loving to the core. So not humiliating. I managed to avoid "hotdog" with two buns at the side of my head with ketchup on top.

Dueces​(neither female) • Dec 29, 2017

Ahhh, i am going to answer here because i love the topic, but (granted its welcome) my answer comes from the Dominant point of view xD

I absolutely adore anything with degradation and humiliation. I am utterly sadistic in this sense.

There's something very intriguing for me, (and erotic) from a mental and thereafter physical standpoint when you can bring someone to the point they lose themselves in primal urges and behave/succumb to that sensation.
Allowing someone to enter the fantasy of their dirtiest, filthiest, and most subservient mindset is very powerful and beautiful.
Washing your hand through their entirety, rising them in a deepened sub space with words and actions, pushing boundaries to allow them to let go and feel entirely vulnerable and exposed.
Their body following suit with confusing or required reaction before tipping over the edge and releasing that pent up frustration and hunger, finally washing away everything they needed to get there in the scene.

Then in incredible contrast, the tenderness, the reassurance, the connection, love and respect given to your partner in aftercare, making them feel safe, bringing them back to being their every day selves and allowing the euphoria to settle.

This is why i am aroused by this element of D/s, its extremely penetrating psychologically, and it can be something very subtle such as instruction to remove clothing where this embarrasses the individual or teasing gestures when the other is feeling shy and blushing such as 'you are getting wet/hard for me right now aren't you, even though i told you not to...', right through to the more imposing such as being made to beg, bark and do the bathroom outside like a pet, or service a multitude of friends or strangers being labelled a pussy/cock slut on demand. Whatever degree it can be completely shifted to the experience level or desire of you and your partner. It can make some people feel uncomfortable depending on the severity of play or due to their own context/needs.

Overall those experiencing a session require attentiveness, connection and security as verbal humiliation (as it is so mental) impacts deeply.
Always communicate likes, soft and hard limits, safe words and so forth

And for fucks sake's, AFTERCARE the shit out of each other and normalize with immediacy.
The worry, regret, inner disappointment and disgust, the fear and so forth are completely normal reactions once you come down from the session. You are conflicted with societies views, your own impression of yourself, what you think others think, and the overthinking in general is entirely common.
The sooner the Dominant deals with lifting the person back up and getting back to normal with aftercare, the better it will be, and the more likely the person doesn't associate a scene with anything negative, or even worse (and possible if aftercare isn't done) with your relationship outside of the session. Make your partner feel secure at all times.

V.

Dueces​(neither female) • Dec 29, 2017

Also as a follow on....

The overall take away from this, that i suppose is worth mentioning, there's this association that those who enjoy humiliation or being degraded and so forth sort of tap into this fucked up 'needing to be spat on, or called a whore in order to get off' mentality.
Some people require the severity of being pushed over the line to submit.
Its not that submission doesn't come naturally, but the prompt to feel submissive, or feel the forced aspect to let go of everything and just 'be' needs to be dragged out of them.
When this happens it is mentally shocking (as one would imagine) and going into a trance like state, or sub space is quite common.
Its not about the words all the time, or the activity they are being asked to do, its about the feeling of no other option but to do it, but to say it, but to be what you are asked to be.
To have control over this mentality, is as responsible as being a Dominant to any other type of submission, the care, comfort, love, security etc needs to be reaffirmed during the process and then again in Aftercare.
How you fall to your knees in submission is your choice, be it by want, desire, force, helplessness, and so forth... its all just submission.

Also fully aware this is not necessarily the process or sentiment or reason behind all humiliation but its a damn sight close to what most experience and often query the why behind why they need it.



V

Taramafor​(sub male) • Dec 30, 2017

There's two sides to this coin. Let's start with heads. I (and others) don't think in terms of "what others think". I (and others) focus on what YOU think. Ergo: Trust. I would want for aftercare to be absent at times. To be trusted to be left in a "bad state", but knowing things will go better sooner or later. Knowing someone is there for me. If someone is always coddling me at the end with daily interactions (natually if it's been a long time aftercare would be more wanted) it's only going to make me question if someone trusts me to remain in a "bad way". Obviously this isn't the depressed type of "bad way" (which will of course more often but not always need someone being there in a supportive manner) but rather things like fearplay. Having been a "sadistic target". It can also be "during care". For the care to happen as you''re being degraded, or even physically hurt. This likely applies more to lifestyle then "for play" but can still be possible with the later.

Now let's go with tails. There are actually people that are scared of aftercare. Confused by it even. Maybe they're masochists or something. Never asked. It is nonetheless important to consider that aftercare isn't always a good thing. Perhaps because those that view it as good want it "during" events. Even if during events also involves sadistic elements. Perhaps what is "bad" is already "good" for them and aftercare simply isn't needed? Or maybe they just don't want to be "that close" to someone. In my case I'm always close or bust. So trust isn't an issue. When it comes to others that don't even want it in "play" I can only speculate. Suffice to say aftercare isn't always the answer.

Dueces​(neither female) • Dec 30, 2017

First of all, fear play is something entirely different. I was not commenting on fear play.

Secondly the 'bad way' feeling is part of what you agree to in n#Negotiation and Agreements BEFORE you enter the session for activities.
So you would have already had this ironed out and understood the expectations of the session and all the activities that will be happening in terms of expected feelings and so forth before you went in there.
Limits discussed, likes discussed, confirmed to what extent you can push and to what extent you want to be left in the 'bad way' sentiment.
My reference was not to what was being negotiated beforehand but rather to a general overview of humiliation and its impacts after the pre session entities were already completed.

Thirdly Aftercare is also agreed upon prior to the session, and the agreement is to what extent or type of aftercare works for the individual.
If this means no aftercare during the scene, then that's whats done.
If this means no aftercare afterwards, then that's what's done.
If someone indicates they only want certain types of aftercare and not others, then again, that is how it should be done.
My reference was not to what was being negotiated before the scene, but rather the humiliation aspect after everything was negotiated and agreed to.
Skipping this step, leads to what you are referring to.
But assuming you are already engaging in a scene, this was already discussed thoroughly and you both understand exactly what you are entering into, Aftercare expectations included.

Fourthly its highly unlikely that aftercare is not needed after sessions, aftercare can be anything to getting a drink for your partner who is dehydrated, right through to cuddles, date nights, making them laugh, reaffirming their emotions, or talking through what did and didn't work.
If you are not communicating what did and didn't work, or you are not conscious of your partners physical and mental well being by at least commenting, then that is an issue in itself.
But if you want someone to peel off your lower back, wipe their cum from your ass cheek, undo the restraints and walk out the room without a word and this emotionally fulfills you and is your choice, then hey, each to their own. Everyone's aftercare requirements are different. Do you.
Another post worthy of raising, but however you decide to do or not to do Aftercare, is still doing Aftercare. Which is the whole point of its purpose in the first place. And if you want to understand the ramifications of Aftercare not being there - take a closer look at peoples mental health when they don't get the Aftercare they seek or it isn't offered as an option. Aftercare, however you want it, 'suffice to say', is imperative.
Please recognize the implications of your advice to new Lifestylers, even if it is just in the form of a forum. Education is key.

V.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Dec 30, 2017

I was simply using fearplay as an example. It could as easily be whipping someone as they're on a cross. While different it is also the same. What it boils down too is "these bad things are happening". While not wanting aftercare may be "unlikely" I argue that a lot of other things are also unlikely. While "unlikely" it does not mean it's not "possible". Neglect the possibility itself and that can be a danger.

What you describe isn't applying only to aftercare. It also applies both during and before. Can it not be argued then that it all applies as simply care itself? To constantly have the exchange of events that are both good and bad, which is subjective from person to person? To be always (and that's the key word. Always) looking after the sub and make sure they're not "broken"? Unless of course that is what they want. Aftercare then I can only interpret to mean "Not to leave them broken". Yet this too can be something a sub may want or risk, both during and after. Even if they also want the other "good" things beforehand and after (after meaning the next time and not in the current moment after events just happening).

You also implied that people that don't want aftercare are seeking it. That contradicts. Again, there are people that do not SEEK or otherwise desire aftercare. Furthermore just because someone doesn't want it doesn't mean they're mentally unstable. In fact it's possible that because they've had mentally unstable events that it might not be wanted. To not "care too much". As it is that very thing that can lead to mental instability. Perhaps they even cared for another who is no longer alive and it is simply painful to have that amount of care. So when someone says they don't want aftercare what they might mean is "Don't get too close to me". Did you consider that possibility? You might say to a sub "Ok, nothing will happen. we will not engage further even if you're in this state." We both know that actually means caring enough to not do any more activity with them but I don't think that is the context they might have considered.

A lot of events also happen without being discussed. even to the point of sadistic. Some things simply happen in the moment and while communication may have happened it might be an event that was simply not thought about as something to be discussed. Or perhaps an arrangement of "Anything goes" was talked about and discussed beforehand. Or otherwise an acknowledgement of knowing what one is getting into. eg: Bad shit is going to happen. You "might" (or might not) end up a mess at the end of it. One uncaring thing can be balanced out with a more caring one. Which again circles back to during events and not just after. While things "just happening" tend to happen less in more "professional" areas which last for a shorter amount of time (which I believe is more your area of expertise) it is much more likely to apply outside of that when people are closer. Even if everything is communicated on it's all a matter of when. If there are people that are lifestyle the when can be "all the time". Meaning there is no "after". This won't apply to every sub with lifestyle but it can and will affect those that are "always in the D/s moment". It's a constant state of flux of back and forth between events. This means aftercare simply isn't possible since there is no "after".

Dueces​(neither female) • Dec 30, 2017

Honestly, as i sit back and reflect on your post, i fail to see the point you are trying to make with the exception of your last paragraph.

Your posts are understood in terms of content, but i believe you are speaking for the sake of speaking.

To address:

- I do like the last paragraph you wrote because in here, you actually raise a valid point about scenes in isolation as opposed to constant D/s (24/7 and the like). I like it, not because it actually corrects anything i have written, but because its a good point to raise to those who do not always think about how Aftercare can be done in these longer situations. There is no difference.

- Care should be in constant check at all times regardless of the duration of your D/s.

- In terms of constant D/s, long term or 24/7 and all others in between, there is still a negotiation and agreement phase prior to initiating the play, and within this, you still clarify whether or not you are happy with Aftercare, you provide safe words and can utilize this during constant play.

- I will re advise that clarifying that they do not want Aftercare, is in fact, performing Aftercare (this is not a contradiction, it is ensuring that you are caring for your partner in the manner of which they require - to not do this at all means you have not performed any level of Aftercare or prepared for it at all).

- Referencing your comment about whether or not i have considered that someone may not want to be close/receive aftercare from their D/s partner due to personal/mental trauma or experiences - I will not dignify that question with a response. Let's not be silly (when the answer is quite clear) to make a point.

- Your assumption about my 'area of expertise' (I suggest getting to know someone before making these) is both correct and incorrect.
I have experienced both (in your words) 'professional', or isolated scenes, as well as 24/7 and longer term D/s.

To surmise:

To answer your earlier question, yes it can be argued that Aftercare could be called Care alone, but in return i ask what do you believe the community gains from the argument when the definition of the word Aftercare correlates with general care anyway?

You refer to a minute percentage of people who do not want Aftercare and to argue as you expressed before, that Aftercare is not always the answer, but then argue that Care is, is just confusing to the community as a whole - particularly when you endanger people by making that statement.

I do understand this is not your intent and you are merely trying to express the point of view that Care is a better word as it doesn't imply that it is only done at one time however keep in mind that Aftercare's definition is actually general care anyway, and when researched, Trained or used, people associate Aftercare with the very thing you are saying.

Its terminology however in the Lifestyle, is Aftercare and not Care, regardless of whether you want to take the first part out or not or when you implement its use. You could argue the word should be called something different to validate your point, but the fact is, the word has been around for decades, and refers to caring for your submissive.

Changing it or commenting that it (Aftercare) shouldn't be used (just because you don't like the word) actually doesn't help anyone.

I commend your passion for the subject (slightly misplaced from the original Forum Post request but nonetheless a good intent - just not well thought out).

V.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Dec 31, 2017

But have you not said it yourself? "At all times"? It's not about wherever I care for the word or not. It's about how ACCURATE it is or not. Which is also something that is SUBJECTIVE. The phrase is "after" care. The very name leaves room for people to assume what it means. In fact you're taking your own meaning and are assuming it applies to everyone. That alone is the root of our argument.

You're also using "should" logic. While I agree that it's wise to regularly check in I disagree with you deciding for others about how things "should" be done or not. Not that you intended as such. Others can and will check in less. Perhaps even leave someone in a cage overnight. Shorter periods of times as described I see no harm in. Leaving someone for a week would of course be another matter. Regardless that's not something either of us gets to decide for others that engage with each other.

You can also use the phrase "aftercare" to mean "A lack of it" all you like but that does not change the fact that when a lot of OTHER people hear and use the term they think of some form of "activity". To THOSE people aftercare would be lacking. Even if it might seem otherwise to you. It might not make a difference to "you" but it can to others. I'm not looking at this from OUR point of view, which we agree on, I'm looking at it from an outsiders point of view, especially those that might be new to BDSM and D/s. And of course it's a danger if you start so much as getting cuddly with someone that doesn't want it. Which some people can THINK is aftercare when not checking in with it. Some people might think it is as its an attempt to care but if it's not wanted then it's not caring. People make assumptions, which we're all guilty of, as well have a different opinion on labels and their use. Frankly I'm surprised I'm having to explain this to someone that thinks they can lecture me about the matter. Which is why I'm taking it so personally. Acting like you know better doesn't make me want to listen. Though I did read your post fully. But that makes me want to not respond. But I will since I'm sure this is just one big misunderstanding.

Again, not everything is talked about all the time with everyone. You are simply wrong on that account. You said "things are always talked about" so if you can't understand why I bring up this matter that's on your own lack of foresight. Not going over the details does not have to be a bad thing and it can be possible for people not to speak of things yet reach a silent agreement somehow. For example one can "discover" that they've been submissive (or dominant) to someone without having planned it. Without it even being discussed even. Spontaneous things do happen when people are closer. Not everyone "plays". Claiming otherwise won't change the fact that it's happened with me and others. While not first official it later becomes as such. The "Communication" comes from "Getting to know each other as all that happens". However, there are also examples where it's "Getting cosy on a first day and things happen without going over the details". But those details and what one is getting into might become known with simply expressing an interest in each other. Our actions speak as much as our words. And can show our consent or lack of it. Getting cosy by a fire and running off with a drink can lead to a knife being stuck next to your head which can turn into a kiss which can lead to one thing leading to another. All not talked about. All having happened. All leading to D/s. And even there I did not "agree" with being called useless, to get back on topic somewhat. It simply happened and I went along with it. Things happen spontaneously quite often (Ok, maybe not with knives. But you get the point). That's relationships 101. Some are planned, some aren't (these ones get talked about AFTER some events have already happened). D/s ones are not an exception to that rule. Doms and subs can simply "exist" (for lack of a better phrase) and THEN discover they got things to talk about. Regardless of wherever they were already in an existing vanilla relationship that took that direction or if they start a new one altogether. If you can't understand that and think it's me just enjoying listening to my own voice then I give up. I don't enjoy trying to explain this you know. In fact it can get quite depressing when I feel misunderstood. So I'm done where this matter is concerned. I gave it a good go and I'm content with that. Understand or don't.

In regards to the the mental stability, no, it is NOT obvious. I am NOT a mind reader. For all I know you might avoid such people for having too much "baggage". Or you might engage with them thinking they need someone to respect the distance you put in with them (which may even help remove said baggage). Or you might not engage with them due to not being "close enough" (such is the case with me). I know none of this because I am not you and for all I know you might be a person that looks down on people that are human and have traumatic experiences. I doubt you are one of those people but there are people like that (too many in fact). In short communicate with me on the matter so I don't make assumptions about it. I never assume. If there is one thing that I know hurts people it is assumptions. Obvious or otherwise. things aren't always as they appear to be.

I also never at any point claimed aftercare isn't important. Which you seemed to imply in your previous post. To clarify I am simply referring to not engaging after "bad" events. "Bad" can either be "Just bad" or "Bad with good". Which can involve verbal and even physical humiliation, among other things. I am simply stating not being so concerned about it isn't a bad thing (for others if not yourself at least). And that for some focusing on it too much isn't as important to them. Even if it is to you. For reasons I've already discussed. You shouted out "AFTERCARE" in all capitals so of course I'm going to react like you're treating it as "the answer". You suggested it to others and I in turn am suggesting that there might be other priorities that are just as or more or less important, depending on who is asked. I wanted people to have other viewpoints on the matter. My approach to this would be the same if you had shouted out "play safe" when others can and will do otherwise. you basically "demanded" others do it. To everyone. And sure, maybe I could get a thicker skin or something but I'm sick and tired of people thinking they know what's best for others. I was once such a person. That approach hurts people and makes them feel unwelcome.

In short consider what the term means from an OUTSIDERS point of view. Not yours and mine, but someone that might consider things differently then we do. Pretty much every label carries a different context (even if only slightly) depending on who you ask. It is that I think that you are overlooking. And why I'm typing up these walls. You seem unwilling to even consider a different viewpoint other then your own on the matter (or any other matter I have brought up). Instead you simply go "This is how it should happen". And that just irks me to be frank.

All that said I think we've simply misunderstood each other. I just didn't want people to think there's only one way of looking at things. Be it degradation, which can be affectionate as well, or a label that others view differently. Context matters. People also receive context differently (hugs being harmful or flirting with knives for example). And that's why degradation grew on me. That's what it means to me.

I'm making this my last post for the thread so it can be brought back on topic.