Dom/me abuse?

Dom/me abuse?

Sir'smisty​(sub female) • Jul 5, 2021

My Sir and I were discussing the instances of IRL abuse in the South African community. (For context, Gender Based Violence is a huge issue here and intimate femicide is 5 x the global average. This Stat obviously includes BDSM related numbers)

He was specifically mentioning only the abuse of female submissives (most especially newbies) and I made the point that Dominant women as well as men are also abused in the BDSM lifestyle.
He questioned whether it was truly an issue. He then made the statement that, if it was an issue it was less traumatic for the Dominant than it would be for the submissive.

I thought I'd ask the forum for input. In the universal life style, is abuse (physical or emotional) of the male or female dominant partner something that happens?
Have you seen or experienced this?
If it happens, is it less traumatic? (for the record, I believe trauma is trauma, I'm not there to grade it as worse or better than someone elses)
Any thoughts to share?

Secret Mind​(dom male) • Jul 5, 2021

Yes, dominants can be abused too. Just because their a dominant doesn't mean they aren't also a human with emotions and feelings. I've seen it happen plenty of times. Its even happen to me. Its just as messed up as a female submissive being abused.
It very much is a issue that needs to be addressed.
Saying that it's not a big issue when a dominant gets abused. Is the same as saying that a boy wasn't raped because he was hard.
But if someone says that a girl wasn't raped because she was wet. People would fucking flip. They're both just as bad doesn't matter if you are a dominant or submissive. Male or female. Abuse is Abuse.

Low{BLK OWND} • Jul 5, 2021

Yes agreed abuse is abuse in any form
I can also see in the bdsm lifestyle how some people may take advantage of others
I think this can happen in any relationship where someone has more power over someone else
Good partners don't let power dynamics go to their heads

Sir'smisty​(sub female) • Jul 5, 2021

I agree with Your analogy regarding rape. I believe firmly trauma and abuse is trauma and abuse. And is not to be minimized. He did retract His statement regarding that.

Do You mind giving me an example of such abuse to a Dom?

SubtleHush​(sub female) • Jul 5, 2021

Sir'smisty​(sub female)
Dom/me abuse?

First, please avoid assumptions. Nothing about abuse is obvious. And different cultures have their own issues with it. Including ours.

Abuse is complex and difficult to deal with. Predatory abusers hunt well. They know who they are hunting and they know what to say and what to do to get you close to them. Much research has been done on the behaviors of predators and those who fall prey. Jim Jones, Manson, Nxivm Sex Trafficking, and many other cases have been seriously evaluated in the hope of reducing these occurrences. Each requires deep study and it is very hard to sort out how such things can even happen.

But most of all - each attempt to reduce abuse requires the cooperation of those who would be targets.

Also, take a look at this about a serial killer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Edward_Robinson (he was known online as SlaveMaster)

Predators/Abusers cull the herd. So when we hear someone has been isolated. Or told to believe NO ONE but the (future abuser) person they are talking to that is a huge red flag. This is compounded by those who advertise their inexperience. They make profiles that say they are clueless and new. They call themselves virgins and other such things that naturally attract those who wish to take advantage. This happens to both men and women. The sub, or newbie dom who wants to be trained and finds an unscrupulous Dom or Domme who sometimes sell you on the experience of bottoming to appreciate it. While this can be true for some it is also a great way to get someone to agree to mistreatment.

Any environment that purports physical impact play and power exchange will attract abusers. We old farts have preached to newbies for decades to slow down and learn about what we are and how to spot those fakes traveling this realm in dom or sub clothing. Many, unfortunately, don't want to hear it they want to play and fuck and have fun and call it power exchange and BDSM. Which is exactly what the abuser wants.

The caveat of abuse is that victims are reluctant to tell. Which suits the abuser just fine.
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Mista J you said:
"Yes, dominants can be abused too. Just because they're a dominant doesn't mean they aren't also a human with emotions and feelings. I've seen it happen plenty of times. It even happened to me. It's just as messed up as a female submissive being abused."
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Your story is your story. I wasn't there. But I do not believe this happens plenty of times. What we have seen is the surge of TNG groups and younger groups who actively reject older, wiser, members-who actively refuse to follow the rules of large events where they could learn and want to make it up as they go along. No safeword parties and age-restricted parties/orgies are two prevalent examples that are common in the states.

I suggest you take great care here in determining the difference between mistreatment and abuse. While on the same continuum they are different and I see a lot of younger members who like to mistreat others. Someone while fooling around may slap someone. That to me is mistreatment. Abuse is bigger, more long term and more deadly (<~pay attention to that word)

Neither is OK and never will be.

Less sympathy toward Dominants comes about because they are expected to manage their dynamic. They are in charge of the relationship and any BDSM scenes they engage in. So letting themselves be abused is considered a loss of control and brings about others questioning if they are players or Dominant.

Truth be told, not many are Dominant. It is a much more limited group of people than the Internet wants you to believe. However, many enjoy the role and topping and that is fine, but even in those scenarios if you are the one controlling the exchange, then few will blink if you let yourself get hurt.

I'm an abuse survivor and have worked with a fair few both men and women. The only way one has to reduce their chances of being abused is by personal growth.

They have to take up the responsibility of learning what this life is really about.
They need deal-breakers and must-haves to help them define what they already know they desire and those things that won't work for them. Instead of taking any smooth talker and believing them.
They have to deal with whatever issues they may have (and don't bite my head off, most of us have issues) that make them more susceptible to predators.
They have to network with mentors of like mind. Male Dominants who openly, publicly teach newer male dominants. Females to females.
Subs to subs. etc.
And it should be teaching, mentoring is not a play or sex option. We teach and watch over our newbies. We do not fuck or spank them. We help them find safe avenues.

So abuse as a question is one thing. Understanding it quite another.
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One thing I do when talking to a potential partner is ask the hard questions. Ever cheat? Ever hit your partner in anger? etc.

I've learned that it is really true that people don't change. So unless he can prove that he has had long-term therapy since those things happened. I'm out.

When people say "it just happened" that is BS. Before something can happen it has to be resident in your mind. Those thoughts need an opportunity to be expressed. In order to express them, one must have decided on some level that it's ok to do so. This includes abusers.

When you come into a complex, multi-layered environment and want to take shortcuts and believe the first person who rolls up on you, then you are a prime target.

I agree with Mister J we need to work on this, but people have been calling for that since I came to this in 96 and much earlier than I.

Problem is that every new wave of "I saw fifty shades of gray" folks who come here don't want to be told to slow down and be careful until it is too late.
Then once it happens that same person wants support (which they get) and information (which they get) and they are greateful. Right up to the point when you say, slow down, and look at your part in this mistake.

And that almost never happenes.
H*

Masque​(dom male) • Jul 5, 2021

I'm a dominant, I've been abused emotionally and physically. Been guilted into sex, had my mind and heart twisted by a partner, and she would strike me knowing that I wouldn't strike back. I don't know if it's more of less traumatic than for a submissive partner but I still carry physical and emotional scars.

Sir'smisty​(sub female) • Jul 5, 2021

Hi SubleHush

Thanks for your response.
Not sure where I was assuming. I was creating context, and, as most here are not from SA, I gave a verifiable statistic.

You make good points.

1. There needs to be differentiated between mistreatment and abuse.

Perhaps a question for another forum topic, but I believe abuse happens when consent is violated.

2. There is a perception that less abuse occurs because of the expectation that the Dominant is in charge of the relationship and so abuse seems more unlikely or their 'fault'.
You make the point that the abuse may happen because the dominant is perhaps not truly dominant. A dangerous statement to make, but I understand Mindset that questions that.

SubtleHush​(sub female) • Jul 5, 2021

Sir'smisty​(sub female)

SubtleHush wrote: First, please avoid assumptions. Nothing about abuse is obvious. And different cultures have their own issues with it. Including ours.
You said:
Hi, SubleHush Thanks for your response.
Not sure where I was assuming. I was creating context, and, as most here are not from SA, I gave a verifiable statistic. (You said, This Stat obviously includes BDSM-related numbers. Statistics can be fudged. And assuming that one stat automatically includes all populous is what I was addressing. In some places, the stat is higher.)
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You make good points.

1. There needs to be a differentiation between mistreatment and abuse.

Perhaps a question for another forum topic, but I believe abuse happens when consent is violated.

(I don't consider a violation of consent automatically abuse. If someone doesn't want to see you naked and you surprise them naked. That is a violation. It is not necessarily abuse. For sure, it's rude and obnoxious. The term abuse gets tossed around a lot. The problem with that is, we need to make a clear understanding of such things in order to identify and reduce them.)

2. There is a perception that less abuse occurs because of the expectation that the Dominant is in charge of the relationship and so abuse seems more unlikely or their 'fault'.

You make the point that the abuse may happen because the dominant is perhaps not truly dominant. A dangerous statement to make, but I understand Mindset that questions that.

(Rubbish it is not at all dangerous. People want to wear the mantel of power and then cry when they can't handle power. Tops have boasted their authority and when the situation goes badly, they want to excuse themselves that they are just men, or women. No, you took on the mantel. This is not a wing-it world. Power exchange is serious business and goes far beyond just getting your way when it suits you. This is why we see a lot of people drawn to the lifestyle who are not able or ready to be Dominants or Masters.

(my only mindset is based on 22+ years real-time in the life. This isn't a thought experiment to me or just an opinion. Seen it, had it done to me, helped others it was done to. I've seen men take on the out-of-control woman, have it go badly, and then cry foul. You don't get to flip that. If you are the one with the power, then be powerful even when that means, walking away or declining the problematic person in the first place.)

(To take it further. No one should stay with problematic people. Don't save them or try to fix them. There is no badge of honor being slapped around by someone you won't slap back. Choose better. That is the truth in this lifestyle and in the vanilla world. The trick is to not say yes to the wrong people. Or walk away when you meet the real person behind the smile. Yes, I do know how simple that sounds, still, it is the only way to reduce those stats.)

Miki • Jul 6, 2021

Let's just focus here.. I can do nothing about what goes on in South Africa if I can do nothing about what happens in my own neighborhood.

So, let's steer this convo in that direction rather than the "modern day" wish to internationalize every fucking thing.

Just a thought

Sir'smisty​(sub female) • Jul 6, 2021

Okay. Let's regroup...

Let's imagine, for a moment, that this question was about the abuse of women and submissive women to boot....

And now let's apply some of the replies...
One would be telling the abused that they're obviously not equipped to deal with the role they identifies as.
Another would tell her it's a local South African issue which has no place being addressed in an International forum.... Am I reading this right?

WTAF?

Dominants and males said it happens and has happened to them.
And yet these replies shame and judge them.

No one is saying that there wasn't huge issues in those dynamics that hled the abuse but because it was men replying it is a non issue....?

Nope.
I can not be reading this right?!!!

I did not take this forum as such a sexist, biased place... Suddenly not so sure this is a place I want to partake in...