Are slaves also subs?

nuovacane​(switch male) • Nov 21, 2021

When I'm in charge and I'm playing with a sub, being a sub is the first thing I think of in my play partner. In terms of fetish fun it's quite hard to imagine a slave that isn't submissive. A good slave will submit to your desires, follow your orders and place you at the centre of their focus and attention. It's a total giving over of self to another person.

A submissive on the other hand may come in many flavours, they might enjoy the struggle before submitting, or may show brat type behaviours. A submissive may not want to obey orders.

When I'm submitting to a Domme it's generally as a submissive, I've never felt like a slave as I've never had the opportunity to live that way.

A slave has probably been trained and accepts and enjoys their position and it's more a lifestyle choice, sometimes 24/7, than submitting. A slave can be made to serve in shackles all weekend, on the other hand a submissive may want to go out and go their own thing.

That's my thoughts. People will probably disagree. What is important is that you agree with your partners

IowaDom​(dom male) • Nov 21, 2021

A sub has the ability (and duty) to personally engage in the path their dynamic takes, disagreeing where needed and negotiating where required.

A slave is submission taken to the X degree - they have none of the rights as sated above.

ButterfliesAndCuffs​(sub female) • Nov 21, 2021

I’ve always thought of slaves as types of submissives. My mind sees it like this: There’s the general umbrella term submissive and then classifications, if you will, under that, such as good girls, littles, brats, pets, slaves etc or whatever combination you feel.

Sasa​(dom female) • Nov 21, 2021

DrWakko... I guess understand your point, but it isn't that easy. First, as you can read there are many different interpretations. Second ... checking a box doesn't mean it is reality. Not with a potential dom and not with a submissive partner. It is all fantasy especially for new people until it is real life. People commit to many things that never happen, not because they don't want to do it, but because it is not them, at least not yet.
For me, it doesn't make sense, but we are all different. I want the person as it is, not the fantasy they got from porn or opinions others have how they should be.
If I understood your checking boxes correctly it is about kinks? Kinks are secondary for me and I don't believe in a perfect fit. I can say what I expect from someone and I don't dilute it or compromise. This wouldn't be what I need and wasn't what my partner needed. But yes, kinks could have a checkbox in the beginning. It's easy and fast and doesn't take effort... and that's the point for me. I wonder how many wonderful potential partners are falling through a large-meshed sieve like that.

----------------

Sorry for taking over your post, Ebony . Be what you want to be or what the dom who will accept your submission needs.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Nov 21, 2021

i think this is well put and fits the question in a general sense. i do think we need labels, boxes to tick are really just words we use to describe something we want or need in this case. i think the challenge is balance, not leaning so heavily on having our boxes checked that we miss the overall container for the boxes they contain.

i think there are a lot of overlapping elements between subs and slaves. From what i have seen, one of the bigger differences is many who are looking for, or identifying as, a 'slave" have an objectification component that i don't see as distinctly or frequently with those identifying as 'sub.'

bigandsmall​(sub female) • Nov 21, 2021

[quote="tallslenderguy"]

I agree and disagree, and this is why labels can become an obstacle. Everyone has their own understanding and are looking for the one who fits, but in reality, until you actually become the ying to his/her yang, you are just FKing while looking. The thing is, labels are deceiving. I have met many who call themselves a Dom but to them that means they get to put you on your knees get a blowjob screw you hard and you should expect nothing more than joy if they deemed you worthy of swallowing their cum. They don't know or care about you, ask what you need or want, leave you with a sore ass and only call when they get horny again, that's fine if you both understand that's all you both need.

I disagree with objectification component being a factor of a slave and not a sub. That is single to the character or circumstances of the individual regardless of label. a slave doesn't mean you have some need to be objectified. Think Sugar daddy in vanilla world. Think job, think maid for Pete's sake. Some slaves don't want to think about bills, rent, want to live well and be taken care of, or maybe afraid of the world outside. Not all Master/slave dynamic is abusive. Some are very caring, he knows his dinner is on the table, his house is clean, his clothes are cared for, when sick, gets taken care of, she lives in a nice home, feels protected ,etc. It's a dynamic of needs, often not sexual but of security. some subs accept abuse or humiliation for love or because of insecurities, maybe they let the Dom push a boundary because they feel its better than being alone. It's character IMO not label that sets the tone of the relationship. People often are not honest with their needs and just look to what they want. the idea of it. They often do not even know the meaning of what they think they are doing. Vanilla life is that different from a BDSM on except for the applications frowned upon. The only ones that can define the meaning or definition of their labels are the ones who chose to wear them.

dollMaker​(dom male) • Nov 21, 2021

Yes they do, to not have so, is abuse pure and simple. I am sick and tired of people loudly saying that slaves have no rights, can't safe word etc. Yes they can, and they should be able to. This is why an M/s dynamic is so challenging, and so easy to get wrong. Its no wonder so many get hurt and damaged in these dynamics.

My advice to everyone is stay the heck away from this sort of thing until you really understand and can do this. I am at this 12 + years and I am nowhere near wanting to enter into an M/s dynamic, its too advanced, too much on the edge. Sure I have been called Master in the past, but it was not an M/s dynamic, names and titles are not what this is about, its spirit, headspace and a place that sits on the edge of constant destruction for those involved. Too many rush into this, and I will be arrogant and say they are nowhere near ready for it.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Nov 21, 2021

[quote="bigandsmall"][quote="tallslenderguy"]

i agree with the overall content of your response. i was careful to not use absolute terms in what i wrote. i don't look at this (or most things) in black or white terms. Still, in my experience, i see the distinction i wrote about. i am gay and do hang in gay circles more than hetero, so that could factor into the difference. At the end of the day though, i think we would agree that the labels we use are just a starting place, that we have to open the container and consider the contents to get a real understanding of what's inside... labels just sort of direct the initial selection process, eh?

bigandsmall​(sub female) • Nov 21, 2021

well put dollMaster and my point exactly, don't get so caught up in these labels because the more you experience the more you realize how little you know. Master is a big title and a big responsibility but make no mistake, both parties can walk away.

Sensualgent​(dom male) • Nov 21, 2021

Hello Ebony,
thank you for sharing your experience.

There are some very thoughtful replies to your question. I rather like Orgazmo's, CSI's, Rasa's comment about not using boxes and Dr Wakos reply and I certainly don't have anything to add.

What is of more importance to me is that this "Dom's" behaviour hasn't left a sour taste and you continue to have the confidence to question and debate without worrying that some misguided soul might lose his or her rag.
People often choose to be offended without real reason or provocation. I think often to manipulate but either way, It's their problem, not yours.

I do hope he is able to reflect on the evenings events.

Love and Strength.

G

P.s. be open to being correct too.