LadySusweca(dom trans woman)
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2 years ago •
Nov 26, 2021
As a transgender woman I'm not sure what to say about this discussion. Understanding where I have been and where I am going is probably not for people who don't understand the journey to decide. Even in the trans community the journeys are different. Caitlyn Jenner probably has no clue what it means to be turned away for jobs that you are qualified for but can't get because of ignorance. We don't get on the cover of Vogue just because we came out, instead I got disowned by my mother. To understand what it means to be beaten by skinheads and have teeth knocked out is not something I wish on anyone, but it's not something I will ever forget anytime soon.
Maybe the discussion doesn't need to be about "gender identity ideology", but about listening to transgender and intersex people talk about the journey to be where they are at today. |
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Online now
Jashine
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2 years ago •
Nov 26, 2021
LadySusweca wrote: As a transgender woman I'm not sure what to say about this discussion. Understanding where I have been and where I am going is probably not for people who don't understand the journey to decide. Even in the trans community the journeys are different. Caitlyn Jenner probably has no clue what it means to be turned away for jobs that you are qualified for but can't get because of ignorance. We don't get on the cover of Vogue just because we came out, instead I got disowned by my mother. To understand what it means to be beaten by skinheads and have teeth knocked out is not something I wish on anyone, but it's not something I will ever forget anytime soon.
Maybe the discussion doesn't need to be about "gender identity ideology", but about listening to transgender and intersex people talk about the journey to be where they are at today. LadySusweca, thank you for your contribution to this thread. I had very much been hoping for someone to come forward with their lived experience. I think one reason why the thread is a little confused is that maybe not so many people get the stark relationship between lived experience (bottom up) and government policy (top down), together with the attendant ideologies that make up that policy. Maybe it was rash of me to assume that they would! I would be very interested to know your views on whether you think 'gender identity ideology', although it seems to have entered the fray with the best of intentions, actually militates against trans people such as yourself. |
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Jashine
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2 years ago •
Nov 26, 2021
shahh wrote: I had a few answers but seems to have been lost in the fray. Unfortunately I think when people who've been wrapped in their norm conforming plastic bubble wrap are confronted with 'different'... Regardless of what that difference is, fear and panic set in. Refer to the second posting on your thread for that. How does one go from open and free gender expression to species elimination? That was an argument made ...and still is made regarding same sex couples. That fear and irrational thinking is dangerous. However, I do believe that the more people can freely express themselves regardless of what's in their pants or who's pants they want to get into, the better off we'll be as a species. The binary gender definitions that we've clung to as a whole clearly have contributed to a world of shite... so growing and evolving to be more than what we are at the very least can't make things worse. As I've said before... Humanity will be at it's best when official identification is a name and a fingerprint ... Gender expression or sexual classification is irrelevant to the quality of a person.
Dear shahh (so nice to see you after all this time! I hope you're doing well), I agree with you that being different from the norm elicits reactions of fear from people. I read somewhere that our societies organise themselves in such a way as to maximise order and predictability in social interactions, and I think that's true. I think people are becoming much less het up about 'expressing' their gender identity than before, which must surely be a good thing. I think it is also true to say that we in the BDSM 'community' (whatever that means) are at the vanguard of gender expression. What I'm not entirely sure about is whether 'gender identity ideology' works in our favour, as it shoots itself in the foot by being doctrinaire. Will it just turn out to be another form of tyranny, rather than the promised land, if enshrined into law? I'm reminded of the joy of DJ-ing, and how you now can/should take courses in DJ-ing, which has killed the free-spiritedness, even the subversion, of the whole thing. I am also unsure of the way in which 'gender identity ideology' seeks to throw the baby out with the bathwater by rejecting 'the norm'. Anyway, these are just some of my thoughts. |
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shahh
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2 years ago •
Nov 26, 2021
slavejashine wrote: shahh wrote: I had a few answers but seems to have been lost in the fray. Unfortunately I think when people who've been wrapped in their norm conforming plastic bubble wrap are confronted with 'different'... Regardless of what that difference is, fear and panic set in. Refer to the second posting on your thread for that. How does one go from open and free gender expression to species elimination? That was an argument made ...and still is made regarding same sex couples. That fear and irrational thinking is dangerous. However, I do believe that the more people can freely express themselves regardless of what's in their pants or who's pants they want to get into, the better off we'll be as a species. The binary gender definitions that we've clung to as a whole clearly have contributed to a world of shite... so growing and evolving to be more than what we are at the very least can't make things worse. As I've said before... Humanity will be at it's best when official identification is a name and a fingerprint ... Gender expression or sexual classification is irrelevant to the quality of a person.
Dear shahh (so nice to see you after all this time! I hope you're doing well), I agree with you that being different from the norm elicits reactions of fear from people. I read somewhere that our societies organise themselves in such a way as to maximise order and predictability in social interactions, and I think that's true. I think people are becoming much less het up about 'expressing' their gender identity than before, which must surely be a good thing. I think it is also true to say that we in the BDSM 'community' (whatever that means) are at the vanguard of gender expression. What I'm not entirely sure about is whether 'gender identity ideology' works in our favour, as it shoots itself in the foot by being doctrinaire. Will it just turn out to be another form of tyranny, rather than the promised land, if enshrined into law? I'm reminded of the joy of DJ-ing, and how you now can/should take courses in DJ-ing, which has killed the free-spiritedness, even the subversion, of the whole thing. I am also unsure of the way in which 'gender identity ideology' seeks to throw the baby out with the bathwater by rejecting 'the norm'. Anyway, these are just some of my thoughts. I wonder if enshrining into law the freedom to express oneself (gender identify as part of this) and the safety that goes along with that is the first step to eliminating that need altogether? The minority or less powerful (in this case any person that falls outside the binary gender code)) need laws to protect from the majority....and essentially make space for growth and education/understanding. In order for something to become the norm, there needs to be a collective language and understanding or agreement about it. Then... Ideally...all of those needs fall to the wayside as people are viewed by their quality...not their narrowed, limited classification of gender. |
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shahh
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2 years ago •
Nov 26, 2021
@MMK
The WHO definitely need an upgrade to their gender definition. You had clarified Jash's original intent partially including " if other individuals have chosen to make visible their gender identity" ... A perfectly legit question. What I wonder with this is how many folks outside of the gender binary don't even have the language to assert who they are yet? It's a rapidly moving language shift and expansion...a much needed one in my opinion. Just a decade ago, most of the language wasn't known outside of very tight knit circles (which I think Jash alluded to). My representation has been in flux ... Gender neutral, agender, gender non-conforming... Is all yet to be determined...if I ever choose to define myself that is. |
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shahh
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2 years ago •
Nov 26, 2021
And lovely to see both you jash and MMK... Been too long.
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SweetSirRendering(sub female)
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2 years ago •
Nov 27, 2021
DaddyPP wrote: Stop trying to read more into people's words than what is said.
are you addressing me? i responded to the OP, not you. as for your slippery slope fallacy, i dont see how gender identity threatens breeding. |
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Fyglia Wicked(dom female)
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2 years ago •
Nov 27, 2021
WytchyWoman wrote: Fyglia Wicked wrote: You looked for a reason to be offened while gatekeeping someone's post instead of reporting it If you thought there was any prejudice. Strawmaning while standing on a soapbox isnt educating fuck all .  I noticed when they thought jash was a " cis" male they went full SJWs snowflake such hypocrisy since they didnt educate themselves on jash's choice of pronoun . Let those types cry about it can be slightly entertaining to watch.. |
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Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker}
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2 years ago •
Nov 27, 2021
Fyglia Wicked wrote: I noticed when they thought jash was a " cis" male they went full SJWs snowflake such hypocrisy since they didnt educate themselves on jash's choice of pronoun . Let those types cry about it can be slightly entertaining to watch.. That level of overwrought drama is off putting in the extreme; the histrionics displayed were of epic proportions to be sure. What Jash actually inquired about was twisted and contorted and used as a vehicle to launch a one woman tirade against *perceived* "slurs". Not a winning strategy to facilitate open dialog and discussion - especially when what you're trying to sell was never intended to be on the table in the first place. You drilled right down to the core of the matter up there in your previous replay to me. Sadly, poor Jash never was able to get any real feedback on the REAL issue though. What an injustice. A *real* one. 
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shahh
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2 years ago •
Nov 27, 2021
LadySusweca wrote: To understand what it means to be beaten by skinheads and have teeth knocked out is not something I wish on anyone, but it's not something I will ever forget anytime soon.
Maybe the discussion doesn't need to be about "gender identity ideology", but about listening to transgender and intersex people talk about the journey to be where they are at today. I think an experience like that...regardless of how well described it is, is something those that haven't experienced it have no idea what emotions that involves... For years. To watch beer bottles being thrown from vehicles at you and have that slow motion thought of 'i hope they're at least empty because that will hurt less" is not a feeling easily or possibly described to those that haven't experienced it. Or being family disowned... Impossible to describe to someone who hasn't personally felt the pain. Too bad there isn't a pill we could administer to have everyone feel that temporarily... if only for a few minutes. I think empathy would flourish. In a roundabout way to Jash and the original question... To come out as anything but the norm poses risks. Laws need to protect those that are 'other'. It's only a start and long overdue... and an absolute bare minimum to a decent (not even good) humanity. Imo anyways. |
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