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Are doms always tops??? ⬆ (and subs bottoms) ⬇

Literate Lycan​(dom male)
1 week ago • 05/13/2022 3:11 pm
Literate Lycan​(dom male) • 05/13/2022 3:11 pm
I had to read your entire forum post and then break it down into parts. When jumbled together, it causes one to think it is one big statement/question? But it isn’t. Words are important and have meaning. When we confuse them, we confuse the issue.

It sounds like initially you (or someone) was equating D/s with Top and Bottom or devising the differences.

I concur with Heero and Forge above. Within D/s, being Dominant or submissive is more than action, it is a constant state of being. Solid relationships last because of structure, even within fun shenanigans. Being Top or Bottom for a scene doesn’t mean you are giving or receiving, it means you are effectively running the show or receiving.

Dominants are always Dominant in the relationship. If you tell your submissive to perform an act (Fig you, jerk you, strip or simply refill your beverage) even though you are receiving, you are in charge and controlling the event. If you like giving up the reigns of control, you may be a switch as others have said above. (That doesn’t mean on your birthday the submissive can’t plan the day out and take care of you or that at the end of a long day you can’t come home to a submissive indicating they are taking you both out for dinner because you are tired- although in many D/s relationships)

I do agree that the terms Dominant and submissive are typically reserved for relationships while Topping and bottoming are reserved for activities. And as said above, shifting roles isn’t taboo although it might mean you aren’t Dominant. I do agree that not all tops are dominant and not all bottoms are subs. Those are playful roles. I disagree wholeheartedly that “not all roles are permanent”. Within the confines of my relationship, I don’t suddenly stop being Dominant to allow the submissive persons to take charge for the day (take a sub to work day). I’m me and they are them. Structure. As a leader, as I have indicated in other discussions, it doesn’t mean I know everything and do everything. It means I understand who is best suited to perform a function or task and I assign it. That is how Dominance works. Doesn’t mean you can’t turn to your submissive and ask for input as a team. But you don’t hand over the reigns because life is to hard. Dominants have a great responsibility to maintain. As do submissives. In maintaining the structure.
SirTOuTOO
1 week ago • 05/13/2022 10:40 pm
SirTOuTOO • 05/13/2022 10:40 pm
@Literate Lycan​ - a well formed analysis.
- Have you any personal examples / situations ?
- I have had very submissive (females) on 'occasion' wanting to 'FCUK my brains out' - to show how much I would be missing their 'devotion'. ( perhaps sensing my eminent departure)
- However,... I would say I was still 'in charge',... just letting 'her' do all the grunt for once.
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Heero​(dom male)
1 week ago • 05/14/2022 12:14 am
Heero​(dom male) • 05/14/2022 12:14 am
Literate Lycan wrote:
I disagree wholeheartedly that “not all roles are permanent”. Within the confines of my relationship, I don’t suddenly stop being Dominant to allow the submissive persons to take charge for the day (take a sub to work day). I’m me and they are them. Structure.


I always enjoy your responses, Lycan. Always well thought-out.

However, I disagree with your wholehearted disagreement haha.

Roles are not permanent in the sense that someone can change their role after some self discovery. You and I may not change, because we are firmly dominant, however, I don't think that applies to everyone. I can think of a few examples where such role changes occurred for friends of mine.

Someone can believe they are dominant and then, through experience and self-discovery, realize that sometimes they actually do want to give up the reigns. The opposite can happen as well.

The important thing is, this person should be free to do so without judgment (though this may mean the end of a dynamic with a partner who is unwilling to accept the new protocol).
Defender​(dom male)
1 week ago • 05/14/2022 12:36 am
Defender​(dom male) • 05/14/2022 12:36 am
it is good to hear Dominants discussing this.

And in such a mature way.

Thank you gents.

Me, I could not switch.

Dominant is in me, I would have to work quite hard to turn it off.

But it doesn't mean I have to keep "on top" of my sub in every situation.
That to me would be a weakness in my character.

And I work on the assumption that my sub is an intelligent (female) human being.

She may have more to contribute than just her submission.

It is not weakness to be prepared to learn - even from one's sub! 😜


Yes, of course, we are all different.

And may it always be so.....
Literate Lycan​(dom male)
1 week ago • 05/14/2022 1:29 am
Literate Lycan​(dom male) • 05/14/2022 1:29 am
Heero wrote:


I always enjoy your responses, Lycan. Always well thought-out.

However, I disagree with your wholehearted disagreement haha.

Roles are not permanent in the sense that someone can change their role after some self discovery. You and I may not change, because we are firmly dominant, however, I don't think that applies to everyone. I can think of a few examples where such role changes occurred for friends of mine.

Someone can believe they are dominant and then, through experience and self-discovery, realize that sometimes they actually do want to give up the reigns. The opposite can happen as well.

The important thing is, this person should be free to do so without judgment (though this may mean the end of a dynamic with a partner who is unwilling to accept the new protocol).


Well played, sir. Well played. I do enjoy this discussion. I believe we can arrive at a happy neutral or even a better understanding and perhaps my words were a bit strict. LOL. Although, I do stand by my original statement: Words do have meaning and specific words are very important.

I believe you and I can agree that it’s not a role we play, it’s who we are. We have evolved to where we are firmly entrenched. If someone else starts out as thinking they are dominant because they are “the guy” but evolves into something different (switching or submissive or vanilla). . . Then they are no longer who they were. They are switch or submissive or vanilla, but they are not dominant. Someone who argues they switch between dominant and submissive are simply switch. And they should wear it with pride. I also agree, we should all be free to develop in this lifestyle without judgment. Very good note. I do concur, with self-discovery we understand ourselves better. But within the confines of a relationship and for the sake of this discussion, I am referring to shifting roles and shifting back depending upon mood and day of the week. “So on Fridays I’m the Dominant, but you get it every other Thursday . . . Um no.” I am not aware of any Dominant who is suddenly topped by his or her submissive. The Dominant can guide, direct or request the submissive perform a specific act - but this would still be the Dominant directing.

Thank you for the discussion!

My intention was to respond to the OP when he inquired into D/s and topping and bottoming. All the best this fine night. Might be time for a cigar and bourbon.
Literate Lycan​(dom male)
1 week ago • 05/14/2022 1:38 am
Literate Lycan​(dom male) • 05/14/2022 1:38 am
SirTOuTOO wrote:
@Literate Lycan​ - a well formed analysis.
- Have you any personal examples / situations ?
- I have had very submissive (females) on 'occasion' wanting to 'FCUK my brains out' - to show how much I would be missing their 'devotion'. ( perhaps sensing my eminent departure)
- However,... I would say I was still 'in charge',... just letting 'her' do all the grunt for once.
.


Thank you for asking, yes. A submissive wishing to fuck your brains out is standard submission 101. That doesn’t mean they wish to top you or do anything other than be the best they can be. Almost every submissive I have ever talked to wants to be the best at whatever for their Dominant and many of them are hyper sexual and hence definitely want to bring it in the bedroom.

As for personal examples, a very good friend of mine was a Senior Chief in the Navy and top of his game. In his personal life, he subscribed to being a service submissive. He described a night he went to a Dungeon wherein he served a group of Dominants. A female and two males. During the course of the evening, he provided drinks and manual stimulation for the party . . . however, the way he described it, he ran the show. He was in charge of everything and the Dominants performed to his standards depending upon what he was doing. Although he was super proud of his performance (and I‘m guessing he should have been) he was definitely running the show. Considering they were not his dominants, he was simply topping from the bottom - since there was no relationship prior to the event. And athough he was providing the submissive service, he definitely was in charge. Does that make sense?

Are there other examples you would like? Standing by.
Heero​(dom male)
1 week ago • 05/14/2022 1:42 am
Heero​(dom male) • 05/14/2022 1:42 am
Literate Lycan wrote:
Although, I do stand by my original statement: Words do have meaning and specific words are very important.

Agreed. I brought this up in my first post. And people forgetting this causes a lot of issues in general. But that's a whole other discussion.

Literate Lycan wrote:

I believe you and I can agree that it’s not a role we play, it’s who we are. We have evolved to where we are firmly entrenched. If someone else starts out as thinking they are dominant because they are “the guy” but evolves into something different (switching or submissive or vanilla). . . Then they are no longer who they were. They are switch or submissive or vanilla, but they are not dominant. Someone who argues they switch between dominant and submissive are simply switch. And they should wear it with pride. I also agree, we should all be free to develop in this lifestyle without judgment. Very good note. I do concur, with self-discovery we understand ourselves better. But within the confines of a relationship and for the sake of this discussion, I am referring to shifting roles and shifting back depending upon mood and day of the week. “So on Fridays I’m the Dominant, but you get it every other Thursday . . . Um no.” I am not aware of any Dominant who is suddenly topped by his or her submissive. The Dominant can guide, direct or request the submissive perform a specific act - but this would still be the Dominant directing.

Thank you for the discussion!
Agreed.

Literate Lycan wrote:

My intention was to respond to the OP when he inquired into D/s and topping and bottoming. All the best this fine night. Might be time for a cigar and bourbon.
Cheers!
SirTOuTOO
1 week ago • 05/14/2022 12:12 pm
SirTOuTOO • 05/14/2022 12:12 pm
Literate Lycan wrote:
SirTOuTOO wrote:
@Literate Lycan​ - a well formed analysis.
- Have you any personal examples / situations ?
- I have had very submissive (females) on 'occasion' wanting to 'FCUK my brains out' - to show how much I would be missing their 'devotion'. ( perhaps sensing my eminent departure)
- However,... I would say I was still 'in charge',... just letting 'her' do all the grunt for once.
.


Thank you for asking, yes. A submissive wishing to fuck your brains out is standard submission 101. ........ Does that make sense?

Are there other examples you would like? Standing by.

.
- Thank you for the reply.
- In the end,... ~ One hand washes the other ~ It get's the job done under the specific circumstances . (are we going to dispute the efficacy or if it's more advantageous to be LEFT-HAND dominate & RIGHT-HAND passive - or vice-a-versa ???)
- Every 'interaction' if viewed from a 'transparent' psychological standpoint will be replete with perceptions & reactions at every instant. We could be merely 'splitting hairs' here, just to retain a (personal) 'perception'. - (which has nothing to do with anyone else beyond the `parties involved` at the time - x10 Voyagers - could have x10 completely different 'perceptions' of the same 'event', above & beyond those of the 'participants'.
- Perhaps, both sides of the ZEN-DIAGRAM >> https://bit.ly/3wcGIhd << touch, or overlap at some point within all interactions,... be it minuscule or greater under certain 'scenarios'.
.... Being 'over analytical' is an interesting - postmortem - dissection. But, without the intentions & expectations of everyone involved for every action & look,.. we are at best guessing. - Imagine doing this IN REAL TIME during any single interaction,... it would kill it.
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In the end - whatever (consensual activity) enjoy the moment - and let the 'active psychology' work, rather than the 'splitting of hairs'. LOL
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Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker}
1 week ago • 05/14/2022 3:15 pm
Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • 05/14/2022 3:15 pm
SirTOuTOO wrote:
Thank you for the reply. In the end,... ~ One hand washes the other ~ It get's the job done under the specific circumstances . (are we going to dispute the efficacy or if it's more advantageous to be LEFT-HAND dominate & RIGHT-HAND passive - or vice-a-versa ???) - Every 'interaction' if viewed from a 'transparent' psychological standpoint will be replete with perceptions & reactions at every instant. We could be merely 'splitting hairs' here, just to retain a (personal) 'perception'. .... Being 'over analytical' is an interesting - postmortem - dissection. But, without the intentions & expectations of everyone involved for every action & look,.. we are at best guessing. - Imagine doing this IN REAL TIME during any single interaction,... it would kill it.In the end - whatever (consensual activity) enjoy the moment - and let the 'active psychology' work, rather than the 'splitting of hairs'. LOL
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Could you please clarify the meaning of all this? I admit to being thoughtfully confused.