Defiance

Defiance

Bunnie • Nov 8, 2019

What are your thoughts on defiance?
Not in a playful sense, but a true resistance. This isn’t about seeking “funishment.”

Subs... how do you process how you’re feeling when defiance comes up, and how do you (do you manage to (?)) shift through it?

Dominants... how do you deal with defiance when it comes up in your submissive? Do you address the direct problem, or seek to uncover what could be causing it? What if it keeps happening?

Zedland​(dom male) • Nov 8, 2019

In my opinion you can't directly address a problem without uncovering its root. Nor will I know how to deal with its repetition without knowing why my sub is defying me. Are they tired, bored, frustrated? Am I being too controlling, not enough? Is this a reasonable reaction or irrational fear? I would need answers to all these things and so much more before I could decide on a course of action.

ropefish • Nov 8, 2019

Oooh, that's such a good question.

I can only recall feeling truly defiant a few times. Once was when I was playing with someone new who refused to respect my hard limits. I just simply refused to do what they said and we stopped talking.

Once I wanted something and was told no by my owner. I did it anyway, and ended up ghosting them. The way I processed that desire and defiance was a mistake. One that I learned from.
We've since reconnected, I apologized, and we're on good terms. And now I know, if I end up in that situation again, that I need to communicate how I'm feeling, no matter how hard it is for me to admit that I don't want to be obedient. It was a bitter experience, but I think I'm a better sub for having gone through it.

Duke Montefort​(dom male) • Nov 9, 2019

You ask a question most men don't answer. What is your opinion, does this make me look fat, and here it is the same thing. WARNING, AFTER I TELL YOU I'M GOING TO IGNORE ADVICE, CRITICISM, COMPLAINTS, AND OPINIONS. This is me. I'm not perfect. No one is. This is my dark stubborn side. I don't show it often, but it exists. I am completely comfortable with me good and bad. Here is the answer you don't want to hear.

Ok, based off of about 70 long arguments over a 30 year span over various relationships of female coworkers, bosses, dom/sub, normal love relationships, female relatives, and friends. These are worst case most never reach this point or are worked out.

If I'm the Dom in the relationship. Defiance usually stems from three things or a combination. Stubbornness on me and them at the same time, failure on both sides to communicate, and three a simple relationship battle for control.

Most defiance starts simple and escalates when you look at it over the long term. I start with simple request/order depending on the relationship. 99% it is a matter of formality. when ignored . I generally assume their is a reason. At first I let it go assuming it is a trust issue. I spend time building trust. Then I try another time. When I get resistance or more likely ignoring it. I first try the direct approach. This is usually followed by the sub redirecting the conversation. Then I bring it back, and try to find out the root. This is ignored and she pulls a third issue for better leverage. When if this fails emotional attempts sex control, I'm mean, or another attempt at my heart strings. Sometimes it succeeds, sometimes if fails epically. If it fails an epic argument and we part ways. I never find out the reason why 75% of the time. I'm seen as a mean pushy jerk. Spend three months thinking about It privately, and then move on. If it succeeds temporarily. Then various forms of the cycle repeat until Epic blow out. Once we've reached epic blow out. I've given them multiple chances to communicate and I feel 100% justified.

Women after blowout who answer the why they defied me. We become cordial friends and to agree to disagree. This usually is about 25%. Those that do not tell me why. I'm done. I don't talk about them or worry about them.


If I'm the sub in the relationship.

I have learned to trust few people past a certain point. I am relationship oriented the more control you want the more you have to build the relationship working, love, etc. If I'm defying someone out right. It is matter of two concepts principle or complete lack of trust. I watch how female leaders treat or led. If you mistreat others I take as much offense as being mistreated myself. I've had leaders attempt control. There orders will be denied, then ignored. If a person I trust is being manipulated by a person I don't trust. I ignore their orders as well. When I say no. I dig my heels deep. Most of the time it is yes, however, when it is no. It is no. Decision final. If complete lack of trust is involved no measure , reality, or manipulation will work apologies do not exist at this point. Principle is a different matter. while I remain defiant. I can accept a difference of opinion, and on this issue I will not obey.

Pumpkin29​(sub female){MrWhite} • Nov 9, 2019

For me, I begin to feel defiant when I'm feeling hurt or alone in my vulnerability. When I'm feeling those more delicate emotions, I seem to instinctively reach for something closer to frustration or anger (which manifests as defiance) to protect myself. Those emotions are simpler. Safer.

At first, I didn't understand what I was feeling or why, and it caused a lot of friction between my Sir and I.
I've learned to slow down and think about the WHY. Feeling defiant is the surface emotion, what's underneath that's causing me to feel that way?
Once I do that, it's as simple as telling my Sir "I feel frustrated, and it's trying to come out as defiance. But I don't really want that."
(Legit excerpt from a recent conversation )
He listens and we discuss the underlying issues and try to correct them.
It's not always that clean cut, but that's the Coles notes version.

MasterBear​(other butch) • Nov 10, 2019

Depends on the emotional root.

A year ago my beloved has a massive breakdown. in public. At an event. In front of about 45 other hard core players.
I saw it coming and stood up and publically told her "lets go". Mulitiple times. My beloved didn't move.

It was embarrassing for me to say the least.


But---- what was happening was bigger then me.

This was such an aberration from her self.

Afterwards, we have talked about it- gingerly. What caused it, what lead up to it, where she was emotionality, what it meant.

For me--- because she is not a manipulator--- her mental and emotional states are rooted in a place that I absolutely respect.

So her --- defiance--- was somethjng bigger then her, bigger then me, bigger then us. And I can tell you. There are almost no things bigger then us.

Bunnie • Nov 10, 2019

Just want to say a big thank you to everyone for sharing your experience in relation to this. It’s been so very helpful to not only know that I’m not alone, but to have suggestions on where it may be coming from, and also ways to help process it... from many perspectives. I really appreciate it.

SoaringFree​(sub female) • Nov 10, 2019

I'm not naturally a defiant person but I think for most people in and out of a D/s relationship, defiance comes from their initial reaction and acting on it without thinking first. Emotions are difficult to understand and even harder to get beyond. Take a deep breath, think about what caused this reaction and come up with more than one solution and make the best choice. This sounds like a long process, yet it only takes seconds. Those seconds gives your brain a few precious seconds to catch up with itself and process what's trying to do a bypass.
Many adults have never learned how to process their emotions and that in itself needs to be addressed and worked on. This is where the Dom can help. With patience and self-control, the Dom can minimize the damage and make it a training session. One last note....all of this is in no regards to genders. I've personally seen/heard both men and women subs be defiant.