TPE

TPE

Bunnie • Jun 14, 2018

I see the word TPE (Total Power Exchange), and sometimes even 24/7 TPE, thrown around a fair bit, and I know as a newbie here, I did my fair share of throwing too. To me, it suggests slave... but ironically, if you mention that specific “s” word here, or even hint at that type of mindset, you’re instantly bombarded with words like “doormat” and “molded”... even “weak”... as you’re quietly (and politely) hushed out the back door (metaphorically speaking). I’m wondering how it’s possible to achieve that way of living without in some way being “molded” or what some may consider to be a “doormat.” So, I’m curious, what does TPE mean to you? And how do you see that playing out in a D/s relationship? And if you’re currently in that situation, if you don’t mind sharing, how does it work for you?

NrsGoodBody​(switch female){FREEspirit} • Jun 14, 2018

oh my. how interesting that you post this forum topic when I just got done having a converstaion about this and am writing a blog post about it. I'm interested to know your thoughts (per usual)... i love this forum post. my respose will, in part, be my blog. ALways intriguing, always caching my eye. You're amazing Bunnie.

(in short- I LOVE TPE. i have no issues being a slave to my Dominant and i could care how anyone judges me b/c they don't know my dynamic. I'm not a doormat. I'm treated respectfully, lovingly, tenderly and I'm far from quiet. My counterpart is amazing and I would go to great lengths to please him. GREAT....LENGTHS>.... THe feeling of TPE for me is an experience i can't even describe because of the energy behind it in our dynamic.)

Not the clearest answer but i think my post will make more sense

_Nrs_

Re: TPE

DammitJanet​(sub female){NOT INTERE} • Jun 14, 2018

Not sure if this is helpful, but I thought it might be as it’s an offer of TPE that I have from a very experienced Dom, I can’t do it, I can’t force love.

How much control do you want to give up?
How basic do we go back to.
ABsolutes!
I DO NOTshare you with any Dom nor can you switch.
You follow my iinstructions, but i want you to ask respectful questions as we go.
My LT Goal is for MY sub to fall completly in love with me. To the point that I am her life

Fudbar​(dom male){❤️❤️❤️} • Jun 14, 2018

I'm gonna flip into lecture mode here for a bit. Between the replies here and on NrsGoodBody's blog, there are some great thoughts about submission, but TPE is something pretty damned specific. While I agree that what Nurse describes does indeed resemble the 'ultimate' state of submission sought in TPE, the means and methods to TPE are rather different.

(section below taken from dominantguide.com, simply because they had the most concise definition I could reference in a hurry...)

The phrase Total Power Exchange was coined by Steven S. Davis in the newsgroup alt.sex.bondage during his debates with Jon Jacobs in the mid 1990′s.

In 1997 Davis gave this definition:

“A TPE (Total Power Exchange) relationship, sometimes described as an absolute lifestyle d&s relationship (that such relationships can actually be neither “total” or “absolute” is agreed; these are ideal states to be worked towards but which will not be achieved, which is why TPE may be better seen as a process or goal than as a state), is a relationship in which no impediment to the exercise of the owner’s power is accepted (some may, of course, exist, and what prudent owners do is to avoid direct collisions with these impediments, while working to overcome those that can be overcome (since the laws of gravity can’t be overcome, a sane owner isn’t going to ask a slave to fly (w/o appropriate equipment, of course), nor will a sensible owner try push a slave into things that are hard limits for hir (but the owner might push a slave up against what the slave thinks are hard limits but which she can in fact overcome)). Such things as safewords, contracts, negotiated limits, and anything else which recognizes / acknowledges / formalizes limits on the owner’s power are inimical to TPE.”
Both TPE and Jacob`s preferred term, Absolute Power Exchange, or APE are problematic terms for some people, including many who pursue exactly these types of D/s relationship, since the relationship is subject to the physical and the emotional limitations of the participants and therefore cannot genuinely be total nor absolute.

Most adherents to TPE or APE philosophies agree that the distinguishing feature is that the limitations are not chosen by the submissive or slave, and the word Enslavement (especially in Internal Enslavement) has become more popular as a term which focuses on the submissive’s, or slave’s, state of mind.

For those of you who skim, imma repeat the important part in caps;

"SUCH THINGS AS SAFEWORDS, CONTRACTS, NEGOTIATED LIMITS, AND ANYTHING ELSE WHICH RECOGNIZES/ACKNOWLEDGES/FORMALIZES LIMITS ON THE OWNER'S POWER ARE INIMICAL* TO TPE."

"...THE DISTINGUISHING FEATURE IS THAT THE LIMITATIONS ARE NOT CHOSEN BY THE SUBMISSIVE OR SLAVE..."

(*inimical is generally used to describe forces, concepts, or situations that are in some way harmful or hostile.)

To tie this back to Bunnie's question, if your Master wants to mold you, you will be molded. If your Master wants a doormat, you will be a doormat. I don't see that as weak, but...

TPE is fucking advanced level shit. It is absolutely not suitable for anyone as first BDSM experience, or something that one should 'explore' or 'dabble' in. Been in the BDSM scene for years and years? Explored all your kinks, pushed and broken some of your limits? Seen and have served under Doms, good and bad? Been hurt there? Learned from it? Still feel a burning desire to push it further? Found someone that you trust and know for years, who you've seen play? Seen them use and care for subs and know their methods there? Feel a deep connection with them like no other? Do they feel the same as you? Is that trust and bond strong and real?

Answer yes to all of those, and if both of you read the definition above and are still chomping at the bit.. then, and only then are you ready for TPE.

Can that happen? Absolutely. Read Nurse's blog, the feelings she has there say to me that her and Pianist might be getting to that point, and for them TPE might work...

The problem with TPE is that to an inexperienced or insecure Dom, it's an appealing 'shortcut' to actually earning submission and developing that deep bond. The 'offer' DammitJanet quoted is a perfect example. (I've left the spelling errors and CAPS intact. That alone should speak to the control, attention to detail, and stability of the one making the offer...)

"How much control do you want to give up?
How basic do we go back to.
ABsolutes! "

Great. He's having to explain TPE and make an offer. If you have to do this for a sub, that sub isn't ready for TPE. Red Flag.

"I DO NOTshare you with any Dom nor can you switch. "

Nothing to do with TPE, all about an insecure mono Dom. Red Flag.

"You follow my iinstructions, but i want you to ask respectful questions as we go. "

Fair enough, but it's deceptive and hides the true nature of TPE. See full definition above. Red flag.

"My LT Goal is for MY sub to fall completly in love with me. To the point that I am her life.."

Red flag. Big one. Run. This is someone that hasn't the slightest clue about how love and devotion works, and thinks TPE will help. What he claims is a 'goal' should actually be the bare minimum of trust and bond between the two partners before TPE is even discussed.

I'm the last person on earth to advocate for orthodoxy in BDSM, and I certainly have issues with those that preach OG/Lifestyle or anything else as the 'one true way'... but I still have respect for those systems, their traditions and the significance of that.

Want to find a new way to explore submission, driven by self exploration? Great. Don't call it TPE. It blurs the lines on a very specific, advanced and dangerous kink.

Want to express your bond and devotion and publicly demonstrate a bond? Great. Don't call that collaring. Collaring is marriage level shit.

I try to speak personally. As I said, this ain't that, it's more of a lecture, and will get some backs up. I get that.

/end lecture.

DammitJanet​(sub female){NOT INTERE} • Jun 14, 2018

Thank you Fudbar, I really have no intention of taking up his offer, at the moment I have him on his knees, exactly where he belongs!

NrsGoodBody​(switch female){FREEspirit} • Jun 14, 2018

You are correct Fud. The Pianist and I do not have safeword. Ive never neefed....to use 1, I've never gotten to the point where I felt I was unsafe. Never while under him. And, as you know, i have experienced some hurt that might step me back, make me catch my breath and say no, ......fuuuuuck that. That's not the case here. I feel that if he had ever shown me something that would make me fearful for my actual life, I wouldn'tbe able ti say this. As you know I don't take this lightly. When I talked about my submission being ti that......soul level, I mean that shit. I am not just words on a screen. Me, in his hands = full trust in his Dominance that i'm unable to describe. It's a very mental level that isn't some fairytale crafted for the youngins to be like: "oooooo.. I want to try that!" No... not even close.

As always, I welcome and encourage any discussion that's open and honest. My feelings won't change. Neither will what I give to ThePianist and how deep it is.

Thank you for the post Bunnie. Always an inspiring mind full of thought ands inquisitiveness that's refreshing.
-Nrs

NrsGoodBody​(switch female){FREEspirit} • Jun 14, 2018

And I feel like I should clarify for anybody that wants to throw a sounding board out at me. I am not in a dynamic where there is a pure submissive or a pure Dominant and what I mean by that is that we are real TRUE switches. So we flip back and forth and we take AND give and it's not just during a session will one chooses to be a Dominant and the other chooses to be a submissive. It is in the relationship pulling off of the energy that the other one needs at the time. So when I speak about TPE to me it's a lot its completely different Realm then your standard D/s relationship. It's not a joke to me. I don't take it lightly. It is BEYOND submission to me.

Bunnie • Jun 14, 2018

Great definition, Fud, thank you for finding and posting that. It does help to clarify a lot. And follows through on a lot of my comments posted on Nrs’ blog (which I’ll try to shift to here as well). I think the biggest and most important clarification that you’ve made here, that I didn’t touch upon enough was the time frame in which these relationships generally occur. Those that shift from D/s into TPE, generally seem to take that time to make sure that it will be a safe, smooth transition, and that all parties are in agreeance. Those who are already involved in that type of dynamic choice (M/s), could possibly still move along the same lines, however they are already coming from a different mindset, so it would probably look quite different to the outside eye. But yes, either way, as stated... none of it is rushed... because it is taken very, very seriously.

Bunnie • Jun 14, 2018

** Sorry to play the devils advocate... but what about when it’s not sexy? What about when he tells you to lose weight? Or that you’re no longer allowed to talk to that friend anymore because he says so? Or even, family? What if you’re no longer allowed to even go to the toilet without permission? Or he decides that he wants another submissive? Or he decides to “lend” you out?
TPE is definitely a very appealing concept when you think about the sexy side of things... but keep in mind, it is TOTAL. That’s why it’s so important to know the person you’re choosing to do this with... because when you’re swimming in those depths, the bottom is a lot harder to see than when you’re closer to the shore.**

Bunnie • Jun 14, 2018

**Thank you for the interesting discussion.
Thats exactly on point, and why I wanted to bring those things to light... not so much for those that have awareness around it, but for those that don’t, and who could possibly fall into the trap of believing it would all be a romantic 50 shades story (which it very well can be, if that’s what you agree on). There are, however, people who will do things, simply because they can... which is what everyone involved has consented to by the time it reaches the point of TPE. So that’s what makes it important to know that you’re all on the same page. And it always comes back to that important word... consent... because, although it may seem that with TPE there is no consent, the consent is given at the time of deciding to hand over your power into that dynamic. If there is no consent given at any stage, that is abuse.**

** both of these comments are in relation to a blog posted by Nrs, yet are relevant here also.