BDSM without the DSM - thoughts?

DrWakko • Sep 29, 2020

Why can’t you have / put someone in bondage?

On the topic of punishment. I think too many new people get punishment and play confused. It seems they get blurred together.

The stereotypical role of submissive is that they want to please. They don’t want to mess up in anyway. So punishment is something that won’t happen much if your goal is not to mess up.

If a Dom is always looking to punish in the above situation then they are either abusive or they are using the wrong word.

Spanking, flogging, paddling are meant to be fun acts for both parties. When you go to a dungeon you will see all of that. The people you are watching aren’t getting punished, you are watching people have a great time. This great time they are having at the dungeon is also called a play party for a reason.

The other thing that could be missed is the term funishment. A funishment is meant to be playful. For example a sub is acting bratty and playfully driving you crazy. So you grab them by the hair, bend them over your knee and swat their ass a few times. One could argue that that is a punishment, but no real rules were broken (unless you have a rule about being bratty and playful) and both parties knew it would lead to spankings. So it’s more of a foreplay than punishment. Making it a funishment.

As I said above a submissive wants to be good and not in trouble. The rules in a dynamic should be set up for the submissive to succeed, not fail. And if you as a Dom are set on punishment maybe you are in the wrong line of work.

One of my favorite sayings is:
“A happy sub is a good sub and a good sub is a happy sub.”

DW

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Sep 29, 2020

That's not simple question for me to answer, and i'd wager it has many and varied answers, depending on the individual

i'm a part of this community, but often feel odd man out for several reasons. i know i am 'sub,' but i also know i am not everyones idea of what a "sub" should be. i do have enough experience to know that all labels need unpacking, that more often than not, they are ultimately individually defined. Their general definitions just serve as a starting place, their individual meaning is the stuff of communication and relationship.

i think a lot of people look at the DS in DSM as Dominance and submission, i know that's a mis-read of the original meaning, but there are lots of people in the BDSM community who are D/s (Dom/sub), and that can have myriad meaning as well.

i don't use the term "masochist" because the definition is heavily weighted towards physical pain, same with Sadist on the other side of the coin. Yet there is a decided psychological side to both that can get pretty complex. i see degradation and humiliation as a form of psychological S/m, and in that respect, i have a decided masochistic streak with a bunch of kinks to go with it. i know some would look at me and say: "you're not sub"... except for the Guys i have known and connected with who identify as Dom. One of them has decades of experience and was a very traditional Sadist (the physical pain giving kind). The "D/s" part of the relationship ended when we realized we were more mismatched than matched with our kinks. Yet, we remain great friends to this day. He has told me i am one of the most submissive guys He's ever known. Go figure lol.

It was confusing for awhile until i realized i have a sub nature that responds to a particular kind of Dom/Domination... which seems to be true about most of us. That D/s, even BDSM, is not a one size fits all proposition. No where near.

MariGold • Sep 29, 2020

To me it wouldn't be satisfying. I like a good spanking and I feel like I need it sometimes. Even better if it's fulfilling for both!

The Thinker​(sadist male){NotLooking} • Sep 29, 2020

Romantized is right.

The Thinker​(sadist male){NotLooking} • Sep 29, 2020

On bondage, it's a personal thing. It's not a kink for me, and it doesn't give me much. Of course, many others love bondage.

On the rest, I always find it interesting when Doms have one point of view (as above) and subs have another (as in the rest of this thread). Neither is right or wrong. They are just different.

I do disagree with the statement that "The rules in a dynamic should be set up for the submissive to succeed, not fail. " To me, the rules should be set up as requested by the Dominant and as accepted by the submissive. Success or failure is a consequence of execution, as carried out by both parties, together. As I always tell my clients, let's not burden strategy with execution. Otherwise we would have never had fulfilled seemingly impossible goals in the past, like mass air travel or antibiotics.

That said, if the submissive feels that the rules are such that (s)he cannot comply, or that she will fail constantly, she shouldn't accept such rules. If the Dominant feels that such rules are important to the Dominant, the Dominant shouldn't budge either. That may mean that there is no relationship, which is fine. I have always held the opinion it is better to have no relationship at all than have an incompatible relationship.

Others, of course, may disagree.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Sep 29, 2020

The Thinker wrote: "That said, if the submissive feels that the rules are such that (s)he cannot comply, or that she will fail constantly, she shouldn't accept such rules. If the Dominant feels that such rules are important to the Dominant, the Dominant shouldn't budge either. That may mean that there is no relationship, which is fine. I have always held the opinion it is better to have no relationship at all than have an incompatible relationship. "

^^^This^^^

i use different verbiage, but i believe i take a similar approach to D/s relationship. Instead of "rules" i look for compatible kinks (and i define "kinks" loosely as an individual expression of need/desire). For instance, if a Dom needs/desires to spank and i need/desire to be spanked as a sub; game on, that's a compatible kink. To me, where the submission comes in is i am submitting my need to his need, but our needs are compatible.

If, on the other hand, He needs/desires to spank and i don't, i might allow Him to spank me out of a need to please, but i don't consider that real submission coming from me because i would be doing something that is not true to myself and that to me is not submission. That's an over simplification for explanation purposes. i have had kinks exposed in me (planted? idk?) that i didn't know were there, but it was a subtle process, a seductive process of sorts, not coercive thing, and it was done using a side door... my desire/need to please. But that is not an automatic thing, some things just do not connect with who i am and to acquiesce would not be true submission on my part, it would be capitulation.

Bunnie • Sep 29, 2020

@ The Thinker,

“To me, the rules should be set up as requested by the Dominant and as accepted by the submissive. Success or failure is a consequence of execution, as carried out by both parties, together. As I always tell my clients, let's not burden strategy with execution. Otherwise we would have never had fulfilled seemingly impossible goals in the past, like mass air travel or antibiotics.”

I agree. Well explained, thank you.

DrWakko • Sep 29, 2020

Rules should be negotiated. I have a doormat it sits at my front door. I don’t bring it into the bedroom. To me it’s a red flag to have all your rules be something you are unwilling to budge on. It’s my way or the Highway isn’t exactly good roots which to start a relationship.

The Thinker​(sadist male){NotLooking} • Sep 30, 2020

Dr Wakko, Once again I find it interesting that the subs posting on this thread had a different perspective (see the two posts immediately above yours) than you - presumably a Dom?

We all have different standard operating procedures. For me, I look for compatibility, and not negotiations. I respect all limits, and I never push limits, not even soft limits. I just walk when likes and limits are not in synch. From either side.

Others have a different approach, which I am sure works for them.

DrWakko • Sep 30, 2020

How can you respect all limits when all limits are yours? You respect your limits and the sub has to respect your limits.