Consensual Psychological Play?

SubtleHush​(sub female) • Nov 7, 2020

“Is it ever appropriate for a Dom or Master to use a person’s past hurts to make them more submissive in a relationship?”

(Not as far as I am concerned.)

Personally, I’ve read a lot of profiles and have spoken to individuals who say they want to be exploited on every level—even mentally and emotionally. But is psychological play going too far? And is it ever possible that a person’s desire to be psychologically taken over comes from a place of hurt in itself?

(Getting therapy is very hard. It can be terrifying for that person because they know that they will have to face painful. traumatic experiences they have sometimes spent years or decades trying to forget. A common theme is to find a way - anyway- to magically heal that deep wound without doing the actual work. It isn't just wrong, its dangerous.)
.............
Think of it this way... you go to the doctor with a complaint. He checks you and surprises you by saying that "'this' thing isn't the problem. This problem is actually a by-product of this other thing." Mental/emotional damage can be much like that. Your brain compartmentalizes things and you manifest behaviors to compensate. When you go into therapy for the one thing that you think is the problem, you can find that the journey to that one problem has many twists and turns. Things come you've forgotten or that you actually have memory loss about.

There is no short cut to healing. When I see rescuer's "fixing" others psychologically I immediately wonder what they are avoiding working on themselves. Always easier to focus on others and honestly mentally and emotionally healthy people don't typically take on projects. Those who mean it when they say they want you well and will help take care of you, are the ones who say, "Lets get you to a therapist and work on this." To dabble with others when you have zero training or knowledge to do so is reckless.

I had a friend who was a doctor. He had a lot of issues and was talking to this woman who had been raped. So he and she set up a mock rape scene in a hotel room. He came in, they began this game and she lost it.

Her reaction was so strong that neither of them were prepared for it. He ran out on her while she sat in a ball on the floor weeping. So her horrible past experience was made worse by a "short cut" When he told me about it after, I ended the friendship right there.

Its fine to ask questions like this, but I sure wish people would plug in their ethics and morality as to how they treat others and their responsibility in the dynamics. What we have is a lot of broken people selling others on brokenness.

DomF​(dom male) • Oct 30, 2020

Dom-space happens. Time is lost and every hyper-focused scene becomes a living thing with a shared experience.
This is where limits and trust become ever the more important.
Just as Dom-space is the ying to sub-space's yang. Dom frenzy happens to new Doms, much like sub-frenzy happens to new subs.
If you are new, these are important things to look up.
As far as the mind/body in kink... It's the ever elusive dragon that has all of My senses give rise, letting all the rest go to the primal desires.
Every one has different experiences so this is simply my take and a great question.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Oct 30, 2020

The truth can hurt. It also improves. That applies to doms and subs alike. Pointing it out and making the best of those situations you're in, regardless of how unpleasant, is how people learn to enjoy and even crave what may have once caused only pain alone.

As for wherever it's "appropriate", I never cared for that word. WANTING a situation or avoiding it it because you disapprove doesn't change HONESTY. Before answering that question first ask yourself "Does it improve?" Provided you take the right approach the situation/person, yes. It only hurts because you're still afraid of something. A repeat of the past perhaps. I will use that against you. Because if I don't you could hurt me, and yourself too. By addressing it context is considered, good and bad alike. I HURT you but I ALSO heal. And encourage the same in turn. They call it breaking for a reason. What is the goal/purpose of doing as such? Benefiting others just happen to benefit ourselves. But you don't do it by coddling them. They might hate you for it at first. But end up loving you for it in the end.

Re: Consensual Psychological Play?

ursa​(sub female) • Oct 27, 2020

What a great question.
I love the idea of psychological play, but of course, it is a kind of play that is tricky to ensure the safety, sanity, and consent of. I think the answer to your question is... sometimes ;p

If I have a word that triggers me, say, a nasty name that might bring up a bad memory, or a plethora of bad memories... It can hurt to use that word with me. It can hurt more than any whip. Without proper consideration, I think even things like wordplay could be psychologically destructive to someone with a certain mindset, and the submissiveness and vulnerability that a sub may present in a dynamic could invite nonconsensual psychological play in a way that neither party may be conscious of. However, when given the proper consideration, proper psychological "after care," and with proper communication, that same scenario can be amazing and freeing for the submissive. Perhaps I can reclaim the name or experience that hurt me, give it a new meaning because my Dom has made it safer (and sexier ;p) territory. It's still a "trigger," but it now triggers pleasure and submission instead of anxiety and woe. Even outside of wordplay, I think other forms of psychological play can be as "appropriate" as any corporeal play.

However, I think psychological play is much more difficult to ensure the safety of.
Say your submissive broke their left arm when they were a teenager. You can still play with it, still tie up her hands, but you should know to be gentler with that side. Depending on how well that wound has healed, maybe it would even be fun to use that weakness to your advantage in a scenario. Perhaps even a gentle touch or holding on that arm grabs her attention in a way that makes her feel instantly weaker and more vulnerable. Well... the wound is old, and you didn't push her hard enough to break it, and now she's cowering before you. You both already know she enjoys feeling vulnerable and weak before you, she's told you she likes the way it feels when you grab that arm... So what's the problem with grabbing her left arm? What would be wrong with applying a similar touch to a healing mind?

The biggest problem is you can't see it. There's no perfect x-ray of our minds to tell if you accidentally went too far one night, either. Your sub might have wounds she doesn't even know she has. She might not be as healed as she thinks she is and even that gentle touch breaks her. What might be a tame psychological paddling for one submissive could be akin to being flayed alive for another. If a submissive knows their mind well enough to know their psychological limits as well as a masochist knows their body and corporeal limits, then I believe the remaining question would be if the Dom knows how to properly wield the psychological "whip," so to speak.

Sasa​(dom female) • Oct 25, 2020

sex is not a physical act it starts between the ears, just like power exchange and everything else. Is the deep connection, the bonding experience possible without that? I don't think so. We deal responsibly with the one we love not matter what side of the slash we are and we cannot divide people into physical and mental. This is a unit, including all luggage ... and show me one here who doesn't have scars. A good mindfuck has a lot of colors and is wonderful if both are open and trust each other. Would it make someone more submissive? I don't think so. Same for hypnosis or any other form of conditioning.
Emotional or psychological play on purpose might be something different ... it could inspire negative and cathartical but also purifying emotions. I read about it and think it should have very tight limits, not to talk about the level of trust and responsibility. I would avoid it, not because I am afraid I cant hold my partner, but we all have mines. As @tallslenderguy said: It is a mutual. What if the person who controlls the process cant do it anymore...

slavebitchme • Oct 25, 2020

I would think to train psychologically to become more submissive. I would work more towards deeming or humiliation through corporal punishment. Just degrading verbally and enforcement through punishment should give better results. Plus wearing an ownership collar or brand.

Re: Consensual Psychological Play?

slavebitchme • Oct 25, 2020

I would think to train psychologically to become more submissive. I would work more towards deeming or humiliation through corporal punishment. Just degrading verbally and enforcement through punishment should give better results. Plus wearing an ownership collar or brand.

RedKat{Not now } • Oct 25, 2020

Interesting topic for sure. Definitely would have to be consensual between the two but I am skeptical. I have had the unfortunate experience of meeting some really sick assholes and I could see how they would and probably have gotten “off” on doing this to their partner. Personally, I know what triggers I have but I am certain there is more under the surface, just haven’t risen up to the surface yet, if ever.

Re: Consensual Psychological Play?

Hypnotist​(dom male) • Oct 25, 2020

Your main question seems to be -

My answer to that is it really depends on the negotiated and established dynamic between two people, and in most cases such things do need to be discussed very early on, and agreed to if it is something that may be a part of ones dynamic. If it is something that a Dom is interested in incorporating into play, and a sub is okay with it, then I don't see that it would be inappropriate.

Something that your question make me think of are those profiles I see around that are most often by people new to the lifestyle who say "I have no limits". In the majority of instances, one who wrote it has no idea what they are saying. They would never even consider that a Dom may try to use their past hurts to manipulate them.

Re: Consensual Psychological Play?

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Oct 25, 2020

i think this is a great question/topic for discussion. Thank you for posting it.

i have a deep desire for psychological mind fuck as part of a dynamic, to the degree i will not call it "play" or engage in it with someone who views it as such. None of this is play or pretend for me. Which is not to disparage those who play, it's just not me.

Mind fuck, to me, is a more holistic form of sex. i honestly do not think we can separate the physical from our psycholgical make up, though i think few seem to explore or become aware of that part of their self? I.e., delve into the emotional and mental aspects of sex.

If the psychological is always part of the equation, then i think a parallel can be drawn between the physical and psychological. I.e., physical sex can be abusive, non consensual, rape. It can also be an amazing connecting and bonding experience, nurturing and consensual. I think the same can be said/experienced with mind fuck.

"“Is it ever appropriate for a Dom or Master to use a person’s past hurts to make them more submissive in a relationship?”

To me, it depends on the above mentioned criteria. What is the Dom or Masters intent? If it is rape, non consensual, i think it's abusive, wrong and morally reprehensible.

i do not think a Dom or Master has the power to "make [a sub] more submissive." i think each sub comes with their own supply of 'sub' (and i think the same is true of doms). i think a D/s dynamic exposes, surfaces and incorporates things that are there. I.e., the need/desire to submit is already there, the Dom or Master can surface and control it, and i think nurture and grow it, but i do not think He/She "makes" it.

i have experienced deep mind fuck with a Dom who lovingly and affectionately used deep past hurt in me and regressed me to a time/place where that hurt/harm began. A time and place where i began to hide who i am to survive. He showed His desire/need for that person (me) and it surfaced some of the deepest, most profound submission i have ever experienced... genuine adoration even.

It was an intricate and delicate dance, but i participated, my volition was involved.

i suspect that there were "past hurts" exposed on His side as well in the process. Because a Dom or Master may be controlling the process does not mean that the hurts being used are solely the subs? It can be mutual hurt being used by Her/HIm to connect and bond, to nurture both.