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Consensual Psychological Play?

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Taramafor​(sub male)
5 months ago • 10/30/2020 9:09 am
Taramafor​(sub male) • 10/30/2020 9:09 am
Quote: Is it ever appropriate for a Dom or Master to use a person’s past hurts to make them more submissive in a relationship?”


The truth can hurt. It also improves. That applies to doms and subs alike. Pointing it out and making the best of those situations you're in, regardless of how unpleasant, is how people learn to enjoy and even crave what may have once caused only pain alone.

As for wherever it's "appropriate", I never cared for that word. WANTING a situation or avoiding it it because you disapprove doesn't change HONESTY. Before answering that question first ask yourself "Does it improve?" Provided you take the right approach the situation/person, yes. It only hurts because you're still afraid of something. A repeat of the past perhaps. I will use that against you. Because if I don't you could hurt me, and yourself too. By addressing it context is considered, good and bad alike. I HURT you but I ALSO heal. And encourage the same in turn. They call it breaking for a reason. What is the goal/purpose of doing as such? Benefiting others just happen to benefit ourselves. But you don't do it by coddling them. They might hate you for it at first. But end up loving you for it in the end.
DomF​(dom male)
5 months ago • 10/30/2020 11:50 pm
DomF​(dom male) • 10/30/2020 11:50 pm
Dom-space happens. Time is lost and every hyper-focused scene becomes a living thing with a shared experience.
This is where limits and trust become ever the more important.
Just as Dom-space is the ying to sub-space's yang. Dom frenzy happens to new Doms, much like sub-frenzy happens to new subs.
If you are new, these are important things to look up.
As far as the mind/body in kink... It's the ever elusive dragon that has all of My senses give rise, letting all the rest go to the primal desires.
Every one has different experiences so this is simply my take and a great question.
SubtleHush​(sub female)
5 months ago • 11/07/2020 2:53 am
SubtleHush​(sub female) • 11/07/2020 2:53 am
“Is it ever appropriate for a Dom or Master to use a person’s past hurts to make them more submissive in a relationship?”

(Not as far as I am concerned.)

Personally, I’ve read a lot of profiles and have spoken to individuals who say they want to be exploited on every level—even mentally and emotionally. But is psychological play going too far? And is it ever possible that a person’s desire to be psychologically taken over comes from a place of hurt in itself?

(Getting therapy is very hard. It can be terrifying for that person because they know that they will have to face painful. traumatic experiences they have sometimes spent years or decades trying to forget. A common theme is to find a way - anyway- to magically heal that deep wound without doing the actual work. It isn't just wrong, its dangerous.)
.............
Think of it this way... you go to the doctor with a complaint. He checks you and surprises you by saying that "'this' thing isn't the problem. This problem is actually a by-product of this other thing." Mental/emotional damage can be much like that. Your brain compartmentalizes things and you manifest behaviors to compensate. When you go into therapy for the one thing that you think is the problem, you can find that the journey to that one problem has many twists and turns. Things come you've forgotten or that you actually have memory loss about.

There is no short cut to healing. When I see rescuer's "fixing" others psychologically I immediately wonder what they are avoiding working on themselves. Always easier to focus on others and honestly mentally and emotionally healthy people don't typically take on projects. Those who mean it when they say they want you well and will help take care of you, are the ones who say, "Lets get you to a therapist and work on this." To dabble with others when you have zero training or knowledge to do so is reckless.

I had a friend who was a doctor. He had a lot of issues and was talking to this woman who had been raped. So he and she set up a mock rape scene in a hotel room. He came in, they began this game and she lost it.

Her reaction was so strong that neither of them were prepared for it. He ran out on her while she sat in a ball on the floor weeping. So her horrible past experience was made worse by a "short cut" When he told me about it after, I ended the friendship right there.

Its fine to ask questions like this, but I sure wish people would plug in their ethics and morality as to how they treat others and their responsibility in the dynamics. What we have is a lot of broken people selling others on brokenness.
Taramafor​(sub male)
5 months ago • 11/07/2020 1:20 pm
Taramafor​(sub male) • 11/07/2020 1:20 pm
Quote: I had a friend who was a doctor. He had a lot of issues and was talking to this woman who had been raped. So he and she set up a mock rape scene in a hotel room. He came in, they began this game and she lost it.


What makes you think what happened here is a "short cut"? People can try things and mess up. It happens. Do you know if they did it again with more positive results? What if this was even recommended by the therapist? Many people that have been raped actually (successfully) do rape play. Perhaps because even if the past experience was bad they know it can be good with the right person/context with trusted company (on a subconscious level if not a conscious one). It's surprisingly common. You're being very biased when you bring this topic up. You highlight the "bad" but fail to provide any "positive" example for comparison. My guess is the partner went with the "Pretend to be an uncaring rapist" only to have it backfire. You can actually (and this may come as a shock) be raped by someone that cares and shows affection even if they use you. Which is at least preferable to someone that doesn't even give a shit about you. But I don't think most people consider that and thus get "stuck" in the "It has to be only the unpleasant kind" mentality. You can, for example, rape and still be gentle. Or otherwise forceful yet also expressing affection. Which can be real as well as pretend. Basically the "nicer" the experience goes the more likely it will lead to something positive instead of someone crying in tears.

Let's go with another example. Self harm. Sounds counter productive right? In the way it's normally known as, yes. But get yourself out of that "normal" mindset right now because that is part of the problem. Let's say you're in this emotional state. For whatever reason. Do you A: Stick a knife in your leg or B: Bite your arm which only leaves surface scares which easily heal over? B can be more effective. Situation happens. You bite your arm to prevent yourself flipping a table over. Moment passes. No "sharp" risks/dangers. One is more "appropriate" then the other. But why? Because I say so? Or someone with a degree does? No. Because the logic adds up. There's also what happens after that.

The REASON (and patients really should talk about why and reasons more instead of being told and spoon fed. Likewise professionals need to consider negatives of what can "help" more too) is because I do it not try to "escape" other pain. Technically I do temporary distract from it in this situation. TEMPORALLY. I must stress this part. You see, when people self harm they often fall victim to the trap of never facing their emotional pain. Which results in escapism, denial, inability to face themselves. etc. All because they can't face their (and this is the important part) past pain. Someone somewhere is going to make that happen. They might realise it on their own. Or someone else might talk sense into them.

And if that doesn't happen... Well, that can lead to blaming everyone around you, wanting to burn the world and take it with you. All because you don't know how to handle the pain and tried to avoid it when it's actually "lingering". Simply talking about what hurts people maybe piss them off. But if you zone in on their weakness and find ways for them to turn it into strength then the pain becomes something else. Once you learn to accept and embrace it that pain becomes what drives you forward. Not holding you back. To quote "pain. This is why I fight." It means that pain is a reminder. A reminder for everything worth fighting for. At first the pain can hold you back. But face it head on and you can turn it into fuel to drive you forward. Then nothing can stop you.

There's a reason they say we're our own worst enemy. That above all else must be faced. or you're a danger not only to yourself but also those around you. Someone unable to even face their past pain is like a holding a gun you don't know how to operate. You tell me if it can missfire. And I assure you, people often do when they're left confused. Sometimes literary.

Puts what's appropriate in a new light doesn't it?
SubtleHush​(sub female)
5 months ago • 11/08/2020 3:24 am
SubtleHush​(sub female) • 11/08/2020 3:24 am
Taramafor​(sub male)

"What makes you think what happened here is a "short cut"?"
(Because that's what was discussed.)

"People can try things and mess up. It happens."
(Yes and you can really harm a person messing up with psychological things you are not skilled to do.)

" Do you know if they did it again with more positive results? "
(They did not, she was in more trouble. More messed up . He took off and never spoke to her again. See I know the people in this story, you do not.)

"What if this was even recommended by the therapist? "
(No such thing. Fast way to lose your licensure. You can find the accreditation and licensure rules under CACREP)

"Many people that have been raped actually (successfully) do rape play.
(How MANY people do you know who did this and how are you defining successful? In my 22 + years in this life real time I know NONE. I do, however, know a fair few who where traumatized and hurt in scenes gone wrong. )

"Perhaps because even if the past experience was bad they know it can be good with the right person/context with trusted company (on a subconscious level if not a conscious one. "

(That isn't how the brain works. The brain doesn't know the difference between a memory and an actual event. Read "The human side of human beings.")

"It's surprisingly common. "
(Not in the least common. Your wishful thinking is common and likely based on your own past that you need to justify. And btw I don't need to know. )

"You're being very biased when you bring this topic up. You highlight the "bad" but fail to provide any "positive" example for comparison. My guess is the partner went with the "Pretend to be an uncaring rapist" only to have it backfire. You can actually (and this may come as a shock) be raped by someone that cares and shows affection even if they use you. Which is at least preferable to someone that doesn't even give a shit about you. "

(Sounds like you need to believe this is a good thing much more than I. Rape is bad. Always. Tagging the action with the word 'play" doesn't change that rape is bad. A real caring partner would not toy with psychological damage.)

"But I don't think most people consider that and thus get "stuck" in the "It has to be only the unpleasant kind" mentality. You can, for example, rape and still be gentle. Or otherwise forceful yet also expressing affection. Which can be real as well as pretend. Basically the "nicer" the experience goes the more likely it will lead to something positive instead of someone crying in tears." (It IS unpleasant its RAPE sheesh) LOL

(Recreating acts of violence is not safe or healthy. Violent acts have long and deep ramifications in a person's psyche. The question was about psychological Play. Don't dabble with the psychology of a person who has been abused, raped or harmed when you have no idea what you are tapping into. It's reckless. We engage in informed consent. Not cross your fingers and hope for the best. You can't consent if you don't know the true foundation of what you are dealing with. IF you are loving and care about that person, help them get the right help. Find them a kink aware professional if you can. And there you can talk about rape play. I stand by my original answer. So go rationalize to someone else.)
DomF​(dom male)
5 months ago • 11/08/2020 4:42 am
DomF​(dom male) • 11/08/2020 4:42 am
Kink aware professional is a real thing. If looking for help, highly suggest finding a professional who sees kinks not as symptoms( also is aware to know the difference for the kinksters that doesn't see the trees from....) But as personal choices.
Abuse is never kinky....it's abuse.
Now back to the regular programming...
ShadowLurker​(sub trans woman)
5 months ago • 11/08/2020 7:50 am
ShadowLurker​(sub trans woman) • 11/08/2020 7:50 am
In a vanilla "friendship with benefits" relationship I had a long time ago, I let this girl literally mind control me. This was before I knew much at all about BDSM and long before I discovered my interest in it, so I didn't even know that mind games needed consent (lol highschool me was so naive and unknowledgeable). I did let her do it to me and it was fine and quite enjoyable in the beginning, feeling like what I would now describe as a "psychological leash". While things were good between us, this was a huge lifesaver for my mental health (helped me survive being bullied, etc...). I even at one point just simply started to have a little voice in my head basically tell me when somebody was playing mind games on me, and around her that little indicator would go crazy and I would just feel pleasure simply due to the fact that a girl was able to have that much power over my mind... Sadly, like all things in that relationship, it was all too good to be true. Let the following be a warning to all here to not let someone you don't 100% trust dare to touch your mind. This girl had a bit of narcissistic side to her, and I ignored all warnings from my family about this and her other weird actions because I was just too addicted to the pleasure of having my mind controlled and tweaked at will by a female. She ended up making it feel like a crime to so much as look at or interact with other girls, causing me to blow off some much better girls that were genuinely interested in me. Then she started playing with my feelings in weird ways to make me further emotionally dependent on her, to gaslight me, etc... On one occasion she kinda figured my secret desires out somehow and told me "I don't own you!" when I simply begged her to be in charge of a date (this is the most hurtful and manipulative thing I've ever been told, hands down). The whole thing came crashing down when she tried to use that power she had over me to change my political opinion on some obscure BS, even giving me a much dirtier version of her ye olde "or else I'll unfriend you" ultimatum. It all came down like a ton of bricks, me realizing that she maliciously used mind control to covertly abuse me and break my consent without me even freaking noticing... I cut contact for 3 months just to teach her that abusing me is a bad idea and maybe make her think about what she did. I know ghosting is bad but this a severe and cunning narcissist that used my vulnerabilities and obedience to women as a way to exploit me. I saw her a few times after that and then stopped contacting her soon after. I hope she regrets what she did as it severely degreaded my mental health (especially self esteem) and gave me endorphin withdrawals that gave me the feeling similar to what people report when they quit addictive substances cold turkey...

Now if you're wondering why mind control is not on my limits list after this whole incident, well I want it but with proper consent and a trustworthy domme (that I hope I find someday) that I can let completely into my mind, even parts I've never let anyone into, without feeling unsafe. I basically wanna be able to do the psychological equivalent of clicking the "pause protection" button on a computer anti-virus when something known-safe is being blocked... and completely let go of all worries and thoughts and control for a while. It is the ultimate form of submission/trust when you let someone basically hack into your mind like a hacker would hack a computer system. Only a really trustworthy person who I've yet to find will ever get root/superuser access to my mind instead of user access (those of you who know advanced computer stuff will understand this little analogy).
Taramafor​(sub male)
5 months ago • 11/09/2020 2:11 pm
Taramafor​(sub male) • 11/09/2020 2:11 pm
So many assumptions. We're going to have to discuss exactly what rape is here. Legally.

To be clear rape is technically not SAYING yes and sex happening. And if you think about it that happens all the time. Spooning a sleeping partner is actually illegal due to the inability to say yes or no but they likely won't mind. Because of actions being indicators and because asking all the time would be bothersome people often do as they please. Which is fine when people know what they're getting into. But of course if people get in over their heads (on one side or the other or both) then of course that can go badly.

Quote: Recreating acts of violence is not safe or healthy

Wrong. You watch TV with people dying and it's considered entertainment (people watching don't actually kill). Computer games with guns (healthy recreated violence). People choke each other and get off on it and they survive and are fine, provided it's done safely. People dress up in costumes and have cosplay wars without real bullets. Heck, an extreme example would be using live ammo in training exercises (while not fully safe you can still MINIMISE the danger. In this case staying prone). I could go on. You're in danger of slipping on a step every time you walk out the door. What you overlook is "accepted danger". Just because you SAY something isn't safe or healthy for others does NOT give you the right to speak FOR them. Your sheltered life is not the same as their every day easy to handle safety. YOUR danger may be SAFE for others. Because, frankly, they're more capable then you are. And can handle more then you can. If that offends you I offer no apologies. People will also accept danger they can't handle if they consider it worth the risk. But what the blazes does any of this have to do with rape?

You can never actually fully eliminate danger. But what you THINK is safe could potentially lead to harm. Reverse logic also applies. You fear the worst and you project (after accusing me of doing that I will add). You simply went "Because I say so". That is not logic. That is not proof. People ACCEPT danger and ENJOY it in MANY situations. But if we get THAT into it we'll be here all day. Rape can violate "accepting". But there's also "What's perceived to be rape".

Keep in mind I'm taking what rape means literary with no room for misinterpretation. As far as the legal definition goes. It's actually rape (legally) when you so much as spoon a sleeping a partner in bed when they're sleeping. But maybe they don't mind. Even if there was no prior agreement beforehand. But it's STILL rape legally. Personally I say "cuddle me up in the bed naked even if I didn't say you could or agree to it. I love "pleasant surprises". Personally I take this to extremes with force, provided care is also shown. Of which IS and can be in other situations involving rape. Though most will simply refer to it as "force". Which may or may not be consented too or not depending on who you ask but will still be enjoyed regardless. I get around in adult areas a lot. I'm something of a "mega perv". I see a lot of it (well, not see. But you know, people talk. I don't avoid sex topics. I seek them out).

Quote: How MANY people do you know who did this and how are you defining successful? In my 22 + years in this life real time I know NONE. I do, however, know a fair few who where traumatized and hurt in scenes gone wrong.


Is "I'm as young as 22" really your best reasoning? Boy, you are young. And your inexperience shows.

I'm saying it again. YOUR past experience. I have more experience. What you believe is what you believe. All 'I've been doing (and what I will continue to do) is try to disprove your claims. Though if you show a complete lack of understanding in your next post I may give up on that account. And like I said, I get around. So... A lot of people. I don't count them. If I had to guess how many people I've talked too/interacted with that talk to me about "positive force without consent" (or done things with) of which is legally rape, I would say about... Gee... 70? In total. Conversation wise. With about 20 being the number I've interacted with. I stick with company that "uses me". Without having to be "pested and asked all the time". Even asking can lead to harm and danger. But STATEMENTS about what you enjoy can make things happen. You don't HAVE to consent because it's MADE CLEAR. I trust this addresses your concerns. But I also want to cover "worst case scenario". Because it still happens and consider it worth talking about how to minimise harm and danger in those situations.

I would define successful as "Resulting in a minimal amount of psychological trauma and a net gain of happiness with the people involved wanting (but not necessarily agreeing) to be together". Thing is people don't always want to be together in relationships. "Hate sex. Angry sex. Make up sex." etc. I assure you, people that care about each other harm each other ALL the time. If you pretend otherwise you've probably never been in a real relationship. You don't just get the "good". You also get the "bad". It's moving on from those events that determines the final outcome. What makes people happy can often APPEAR to be harmful (or may be harmful yet nonetheless sought out for whatever reason). I'm 32 and have gone through much in my life. And know others that have. So to answer your original question here...

1: I have a rape victim for one example. This might surprise you. She starts BECOMING a rapist herself. Without fully realising it of course. But it's STILL happening. She wants to be capable. Tough. She'll take advantage so no one will TAKE advantage of her. You can see the complication. People that GET raped can also DO rape. With rapeplay this serves as an outlet. Many people that have been raped turn to rape play. In part to help prevent REAL rape. They're still confused with things like "positive force" and such. Didn't consider that did you? This IS safe and it IS helpful. And helps people that have suffered severe trauma. Provided the right approach is taken. Either trust in my experience (and the experience of the victims themselves) or do not. It doesn't take a shrink to tell you that if someone doesn't care they don't have a reason to not rape you (or kill you. Or steal from you. Or whatever harmful actions when someone doesn't have a reason to care about you. etc). Telling them "not to do it" won't stop them. Because it's just for you. For YOU. What's THEIR reason to care and do what YOU want? I don't think you thought about that before. You are doing so now. Keeping THEM in mind helps keep YOUR safety in mind. Sometimes people understand each other even when an experience is bad, and rape can be one of those experiences at times. Through understanding an experience doesn't have to end bad and can even be enjoyable (understanding often leads to trust). It can get rather technical. Long story short "it depends on the situation". If you want to pretend otherwise go ahead. But it won't change the facts. It's all dependent on you RESPOND to a situation. Going "Boo hoo, about me" isn't going to get you out of that bad situation. Maybe there is no way to get out of it. But maybe, just maybe you can turn it around into something that doesn't have to be unpleasant. At first it might be for your own safety. But sometimes people discover they actually care about each other because of the understanding and appreciation through an experience even if it started badly. How they "made it about each other" even if it might have started selfish and one sided. The main issue is that's rarer then what is "common". Of course rape is bad when people go "It's just about my dick, bend over, my sexual needs alone and bye" (unless whoever they rape has a thing for abuse with no affection I guess? Is a thing). That is using and abusing the other person without any positive elements whatsoever. How can you "work in the care". How do you "get them to care"? To start "Thinking of you". Instead of "just them"? Play them. Give THEM direction instead. CONTROL the situation. Make them WANT to change direction.

There's also actions. What people "show". Before even pulling your pants down you can do "little things". Like a "test" of sorts. Like a gentle tap on a shoulder with the flat blade of a knife. See the reaction. If it's "well received" (in which case continue) or if they "panic and become concerned" (in which case I stop. Fear can be present but not pushing away and fleeing). One thing can lead to another (with them/me enjoying it). In order for that to go well you have to be VERY sure and make sure the other person involved isn't getting into something they can't handle. If they "play along" (without wanting to get away from you) then, yes, it's "rape". But they (and I) enjoy it. And I'm talking about being on the receiving end for the most part (though if someone clearly likes that kind of attention I'll be happy to entertain them. IF they make it a point to engage with me as well). No one's in any real danger of course. It's about the tension. The suspense. People enjoy it. Having good things "Just happen". But again, this is technically, legally, rape. Due to the "no verbal agreement". It's also threats, intimidation, combined with showing affection and appreciation (in this example at least). It's "rape" but it's "being enjoyed". With no psychological trauma or damage. If anything the reverse considering people get off on it and are happy doing it. This can either be "real" or "pretend".

With rapeplay people say they "pretend". But let's be honest here. Going by the legal definition of what rape is, that is the "lack of consent", of which many people do NOT give in many situations, then it's rape. It's happening in and out of BDSM anyway regardless. People do things. Situations "just happen". There might be no consent. But people DISCUSSED. And are AWARE of how they affect each other. Technically many do "rape play", they just don't refer to it as that. But as you're so fond of saying, rape is rape. And no consent is no consent. no ifs ands or buts. No chicken coconuts. Dems the facts. So, yes, as you said, it's rape. But are people happy?

It's TECHNICALLY rape. Technically. Legally. But if people are HAPPY doing those things together then they are HAPPY. And many people are. Be it "rape play" or "force without saying" or even "Harmfully using while making sure you're also cared for" (I personally experience this all the time and ensure it happens on the receiving end. Use does not translate to abuse without care). Breaking also factors in (psychological. Getting in someones head/mind). Sometimes harm is intended to better improve people and it's what they want. Because it can lead to something more positive. There are so many factors at play it's mind boggling.

S/M (sadism and masochism) follows similar logic. TECHNICALLY it's "assault". But the law turns a blind eye because it can be done with consent and people being happy (where rape and rapeplay throw a spanner in "consent" S/M throws a spanner in "assault"). There would likely be riots if the law kicked up a fuss about it. In the past it was "gay" (it was once considered a mental instability. Only to those that don't try to be understanding). There's always some bullshit reason to see ONLY the worst without context or considering the "other side of the fence". All because of SEEING only the worst yourself (which is what you're doing btw). Well, pal, the world doesn't revolve around your one single perception. Or mine. You claim to being the right but I am providing proof as to why you're wrong. Counter argue with logic and facts (not that "I'm right just because it exists crap) and prove me wrong if you can. But if you can't, you can't.

2: There's a whole group about rape play in FetLife. See for yourself. That group exists for a reason. I hate the site but interest is interest. And people being happy in it is people being happy in it. People doing rapeplay clearly enjoy it and are safe and happy together. If you have any doubts then make a topic there and ask them. Though I don't know how many are rape victims that turned to rape play. Nonetheless people are safe and happy. Or at least accept any danger involved and are happy. Their lives. Their choice. Their happiness. Not yours. Not mine. Theirs. Maybe you disapprove. But happiness is happiness. And wanting to be with each other is wanting to be with each other. It's that simple. Regardless of whatever harm or danger is involved. THAT situation. THAT context. THOSE reasons (that you likely refuse to even CONSIDER). This is why blank carpet statements never have and never will work.

3: I PERSONALLY know two people that have been raped. The "good" parts of rape involve things like "force" and "direction" with control. There has to be "incentive". Like "appreciation". The BAD parts of rape involve things like "I don't care. Leave you in tears without thinking of your well being." Unless of course that is a need and people want to do that (for none destructive reasons I would hope). Be it "pretend" or "real". The later obviously resulting into finding said reasons when controlled. Rape isn't "just rape". There's "little details". Both good and bad. Each and every little action. Each and every moment. Meaning something. There's multiple little details can be EITHER good OR bad depending on a situation. Most likely a mix of BOTH. Just like ANY other situation. That's the important part (and the part you refuse to even consider. At least with your previous post). It's also dependent on wherever the other person "lets things happen" (we're not mind readers) or says no. And even then there are times people continue and it's enjoyed anyway (which is something to be VERY careful about regardless of what is done. changing minds and being conflicted is a thing). There's also a fine line between "reluctance" and "prisoner". Some people lean to the former, others to the later. Some people want it, some don't. Some people are conflicted and still finding out during the experience. There can be healthy reasons and unhealthy reasons. With one leading to the other (for better or/and for worse). Often it's a mix of both and people have to analyse themselves to have a better understanding. So if someone has a bad experience it's not because X event is bad. It's because X APPROACH was bad. Be it the person taking initiative or the person RESPONDING in a negative fashion. Throw a tantrum and it only proves your inability to handle the situation.

4: My dad has a lot of experience in psychology himself. As such I've picked up on quite a bit in multiple areas. How people "tick" and such. I will note I have saved suicidal people a number of times as well as gotten past even the most closed minded of people because logic spares no one (provided they listen of course). What I'm basically getting at is that I'm more more experienced with psychology then you are. So I hope you understand why I feel offended when you imply I don't care about it when I have it in mind at ALL times. I have MUCH MORE experience then you do who is seeing ONLY the worst of situations. I'm not saying the fear doesn't exist, I am saying it's ALL you see and that fear consumes you to the point you see ONLY the worst. It exists, yes, but that doesn't mean the positive events you do NOT see don't exist. it's not just what you see, It's also what you DON'T see. Which is why the wisest of people begin with saying they DON'T know (and if someone says that in a relationship it's also a good sign. That they can say "I don't understand" if you tell them that). Because they can admit they don't understand.

Step one: Accept the situation for what it is (most often your own ignorance and irrational fear). Any shrink will tell you that. You are afraid. You see only the worst. You act like you're in the right with little to no experience. You've had, what, one? How can you possibly understand? Because so many others go "bad bad bad only bad" and you jump on the bandwagon without even giving an ounce of thought to positive context? I would like to believe you're better then that. The bad is most certainty to be taken note of, but what are you overlooking? What HAVEN'T you considered? What DON'T you know? Getting the idea now? Stop making excuses to not control your memories and start using your brain to change how you think (not in this situation but ANY situation). You have that control. You have that power. Or are you going to feed me a bunch of "It's not how it works" when I've made it work myself and know better? Damn right I'm changing my perceptions and how I think when I find out I lived in fear and worried about nothing (So much time wasted). Hmph. Don't make the same mistakes I did kiddo. It can cost you your sanity. Take that warning for what it's worth.

More then that the fact you are projecting from your own past experience after saying I do it (when I do not. Thanks for asking) is hypocritical. Projecting is actually a big pet peeve of mine. It leads to irrational fear (which further leads to psychological harm. Assuming only the best can be harmful too). It's never as simple as "Only what I know". And that IS what you're doing. You are afraid because of your bad past experience. At least ADMIT that instead of trying to accuse me (of something you yourself are doing). It is why you made the first post. It's why you don't even consider positive context (which further shows lack of trying to be understanding). Until you admit it you'll never get over your fear. But that's your problem. What you do with that information is up to you.

Quote: That isn't how the brain works. The brain doesn't know the difference between a memory and an actual event.

I think you mean it's not how YOUR brain works. I know every difference, thanks. And I certainty know more then you do. I will now prove this by saying why. It can be a struggle at first. Especially at your age (rather your lack of experience because of your age). It was for me too. You're referring to getting "caught up" in past bad memories and thinking irrationally, right? How real bad memories "linger" and lead to thinking things that aren't true which fuels irrational thoughts? Do correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think I am. Regardless, the danger is assumptions. "Fixed answers". Fearing only the worst (or even best) which leads to projecting. Take it from me, it's a good way to go insane. People simply don't appreciate assumptions. But if you yourself assume then you are what you hate. Your own assumptions is your own grave (and really pisses people off because you're assuming stupid shit about them). As it was once mine. REGARDLESS of the situation, REGARDLESS of how things NORMALLY happen never be close minded. Ever.

I also overcame my past bad memories. I did this by actually holding onto the memory. It hurt. A lot. But I know it would have hurt more to forget. I did what many others refuse to do. You see, most people actually try to escape it. Which is what leads to the "Misplaced memories" and confusion that you mentioned. Which further leads to long term psychological harm (and , more concerning, ignorance). Most people go "Let's just have fun and not think about the bad things" (which I find very irksome and more importantly consider very dangerous to long term psychology well being. Focus on positives, yes. Choosing ignorance, no). I face pain. Not flee from it. Fear too. It makes me stronger. It also makes others stronger when I get them to do it too. This is unrelated to rape but this is important nonetheless. I know I'm responsible for how I affect others. Where others make excuses to not care about the psychological well being of others (it irks me how some people say that) I keep it in mind at all times. Regardless of who. regardless of how they feel about me. If nothing else they circle back on me and i have my own sanity to consider. So anyone making excuses to not keep that in mind with other people is something I am very wary of (it indicates lack of care. Lack of looking after ones own mental health. etc). You tread on eggshells "at first". At FIRST. Until it becomes so much of a habit that you don't think so much and simply "do". Or "Say what is honest without having to overthink". etc. I value the psychological health to the point I tell myself I HAVE to tread on some eggshells or people will get hurt. Or even die. I'm serious. The reality is we ARE affecting everyone around us ALL the time. Say one bad thing and that person you're next too right now could pull a gun out and pull the trigger, be it at you or their own head. And that's a scary thought some people simply can't handle (which means they can't handle safety at all IMO). Where so many others botch things up I have never once had someone in danger fail to bounce back when I happened to come across them (and I've always made my relationships recover even when they go bad. I put my MIND to it. I use my BRAIN and get them too). it's often "Anger at first but then laughter". Consider this further proof in regards to changing how the brain works. You can help others by pointing out action and reaction. But in the end it's up to you. What you WANT and CHOOSE to do. Or otherwise let happen. Knowing HOW to make things happen. That actually touches on incentive (a reason to use your brain in situation X or Y) but let's move on. Back to the rape!

Quote: Sounds like you need to believe this is a good thing much more than I. Rape is bad. Always. Tagging the action with the word 'play" doesn't change that rape is bad. A real caring partner would not toy with psychological damage.

What I need or even what it SOUNDS like is irreverent. With all due respect knock off the assumptions. Also you are wrong about mental well being not being a toy. What is the purpose of a toy? To be played with. And if you look after it it won't break down. But if you MISUSE it then you can break it (in the bad ways that is. Not the fun way). Thus, even if someone does play with your mind, make sure they know what they're doing (or otherwise trust they do). There's also the "firearm" example. Basically "Look after it and it looks after you". People are no different. We all want fun. Thus "Toy" with each other. But you have to know how. Mental well being can be a toy in good ways. It amuses and entertains me to see people improve and adapt, and I amuse others when I'm toyed with. At some point in relationships people get so worn out and fed up that they find themselves in an unpleasant situation after hurting each other and one of two things happen. 1: You're done with each other (but that's just going to lead to 2 with someone else or even the same person later). 2: You learn to make a game out of whatever bad situation you're in and turn things around. It's actually because of events like this that many people turn to BDSM. I've had knife threats tossed at me and turned that into fun and games with people turning over a new leaf. So don't tell me people that care don't hurt each other when I know full well they do. When someone can say they MEANT to hurt you even when they care it is HONEST. And anyone else pretending "it's just a mistake" is probably lying to you when they made a bad situation THAT clear. Everyone has their reasons. And chances are YOU gave them a reason yourself (like deaf ears and turned backs or betrayal or whatever else). Respond in a POSITIVE manner and you can turn those bad situations around. This is getting off topic though. Back to the rape part.

I didn't say it's ALWAYS a good thing. I said it SOMETIMES is. Again, you are making a blank carpet statement. It doesn't matter what either of us need. This isn't about just us (and sure as hell but your assumptions). What matters is that I know for a fact that there are people that have been approached without permission, unasked for but not unwelcome. Without consent. Technically that's rape. Especially when it's a stranger that approaches you. HOWEVER, if I approach someone and know they're not someone to be trifled with and know the possible danger of doing that then any harmful repercussions on me. By being the first to approach through my ACTIONS (and perhaps whatever "tense flirting" I do) it signifies "game on". eg: "Positive/healthy rape". Or if not that at least rape people knowingly pursue and thus choose. But SELF CHOICE ISN'T CONSENT. Two VERY different things. But you don't have to consent for a situation to go well. That's why a number of people prefer "no consent". Both in and out of BDSM. It doesn't have to be a bad thing. And if it seems that way that's your own closed minded nature and inability to make the best of none consensual situations. It's life. It tosses lemons. I prefer NC because I like to adapt and be tossed into the deep end. That's me. Some people just aren't ready to handle that. That's them. But "life and lemons" comes regardless. I much prefer to keep my skill and talent of making the best of "surprise situations" in check (I'm very into things like "force" and "being raped with a care"). At first it was for my own benefit. But I've come to discover that keeping on top of this helps with talking to other people about "adapting in life". And how they can overcome their weaknesses. It's the whole "Because context" thing I guess. If someone is wallowing in self pity and denial I snap them out of it with "the harsh truth". It's so easy to fear just the worst isn't it? What example then are you setting when you do that?

Your fear leads to narrow minded assumptions and being close minded is what I'm saying. Nothing has ever caused more psychological harm then that.
Roselette​(sub female)
1 month ago • 03/05/2021 6:03 am

mindfuck

Roselette​(sub female) • 03/05/2021 6:03 am
I believe it is the deepest form of submissions and best done by a daddy dom. not to say a dom cannot but I feel a daddy dom is more in tune with your life as a whole and better able to navigate it. let's take pain. some people love pain because all pain feels good. blood flow and endorphins etc cool. but some people love pain honesty because they were hurt by someone in their past.. in a non pleasant way. and so noww they control the hurt and feel more in control in life and thats why the pain is now pleasurable. so same act... same physical reaction of pleasure.. but the mental portion is massively different. is it wrong to inflict pain in the second senerio? I dont think so because this lifestyle requires that you have an understanding of these possibilities and be pretty in tune to it. so..let's say the sub doesn't actually know why they like pain. you can discussit and I mean reallly go in depth.. in that moment you can be the one to build the sub up. to take them on a ride with an epic end. its a psychological revelation that woukd prob bring the sub wayyy down cuz well crap that person who caused all that awful hurt in the past, still controls how they feel ..like if they never hurt this sub would the sub even like pain? thats a super vulnerable state to be in.. so my dom explained the concept to me and I realized I didn't like the pain exactly.. I liked getting back control over what was done to me but also felt I deserved the hurt.. and felt it made him happy. so he told me how I do have control over how I perceive pain and life etc and he does not need me to feel bad to feel good...and I was causing my own grief. he said it more tasteful than that but he really broke me down raw over it. it was not my fault pain got me to feel that way and its not wrong it felt good to me. he build me up and gave me power to actually enjoy pain cuz I want to now.. and I feel so much more connected. I felt physically ill when I disobeyed him afterwards.. cuz he truly cared and so y am I not doing what he asks etc. it was like a door opened and he brought me there and now I can have a hair elastic snap on me and it causes the same sensations that a crisp new whip would cause after a few days on the same area. because now I get it and now I super control how my body reacts and now I trust him so much that my mindset allows me to give it to him. anyone else uses an elastic and it takes alot more effort to get the same effect ... but i do get the effects.. I like the mind fucks... but there are not the same as thinkgasms.. they cause a change in the subs actual life and mindset.. and are generally best left to persons who understand trauma and trauma reactions because he could have gotten me to the worst place. anyway that was my experience. I see psych play as breaking a sub down and building them back up as the daddy or dom sees fit.. and enjoying the rewards of that deeper bond afterwards
Kelpi
1 month ago • 03/05/2021 6:15 am
Kelpi • 03/05/2021 6:15 am
To be honest I have used mind games against people who have done me wrong or hurt someone I know. To do it you have to get into a mind set that is hard to come back from the more you do it. To use your past to make you more submissive? No and hell no. I had someone try and hurt me by saying because my kids where not biologically mine they where not my kids. 2 Daughters I have had for 25 yrs. This did hurt but it has done something to me that time will not heal and revenge won't fix. Messing with someone's mind is not a good thing but when they want it and need it well that is a matter best left to those who know the game.