Abuse veiled as protocol

Abuse veiled as protocol

MasterBear​(other butch) • Aug 27, 2022

Hello Cageites!

Ok- here goes---

Protocol especially high protocol has elements of what is also categorized as abuse.
Social isolation- cant speak to others without the D types permission.
Financial isolation- the D type takes the paycheck
Potential for minmal decision making - expected to follow orders without input
Service without extrenal distraction


How do you determine what is protocol and what is abuse veiled as protocol?

moll​(other female){owned slav} • Aug 27, 2022

It's up to the person in the relationship. If they are accepting of the rules of the Dom/Master than it is not abuse. If the sub/slave feels that it's not what they agreed to, not what they want, and don't have a way out....then it's abuse.

What works for the people in a dynamic may not work for other people. Just like family values: my family values are not your, but it doesn't mean they are wrong.

(cue accusations of abuse)

Zelia • Aug 27, 2022

One word, consent. As long as the sub or slave consents to the protocols then it is not abuse.
Personally, I welcome such protocols.

Notely • Aug 27, 2022

Its a huge responsibility for Dom/Domme to take on a sub/slave/ bottom the sub/slave/bottom has rights as they human this human rights a contract can be broken at any time you have right to leave if you do not feel safe. They need to give you a key or way you to get out. You have a mind use it every where you go. You need consent and limits and feelings you need safe words as well. I am a maso bottom I speak up when time to stop. They need to able to see your eyes and nails.

Social isolation- Sub/Slave/ Bottom is human has the right to speak use your brain you come with. Isolation should only be time out for 15 mins with your partner in sight should . Never walk away from sub or leave them for hours in a cage or chained do to the health could be a fire or weather they could pass out or end up in the er or even worse.

Financial isolation- Big No No They should respect you as your money is to be shared and agreed on they don't have right to just take from you then they need to go make their own. Partnership should be your in this together not just taken from you.
Potential for minmal decision making - Without communication there is no relationship. Without respect there is no love. Without trust there’s no reason to continue.

Service without extrenal distraction - Well should be treated fair even if in service you need breaks







Abuse VS BDSM https://quotesgram.com/img/dom-sub-love-quotes/139444/ j

https://twitter.com/peotryessence/status/1563613456276025344/photo/1
Dom has to be responsible when sub is injured or needs help mentally and physically. It takes good Dom to respect a Sub. I know some want abuse but until you've been abused you get burned . Anyone wants only use as human punching back is red flag they sweet talk you only care about them self they using you as possession, not real love. If you say you like abuse want two black eyes do you know how that feels do you realize brain and eye damage you might not be the same person again person wants to hurt you in the wrongs ways it can leave you mentally handicap this really what you want think again. I have done pain I don’t let anyone hit me or punch there draws a line with comes to BDSM. You need consent and communication and agreeing on things or want to take your consent so things with your knowledge are wrong. If you fall for abuse and want it in the wrong ways you should seek help. You could be suffering some pest abuse. Don’t go by sweet words go by sweet effect and blue prints the right person will show you and never force you to respect what you get in your mind not your parts.
Discipline should only be done out of love not hate. Also need after care. If you know someone being abused or your being abused call abuse hotline for help
https://www.thehotline.org/

moll​(other female){owned slav} • Aug 27, 2022

A dynamic is between the people who have consented to be in that dynamic....and that does NOT include you!

I'm getting so tired of people who take it upon themselves to tell other people what they can and cannot do within their own dynamics. As long as the person is of consenting age and is not mentally impaired, they have the right to agree to whatever they feel is best for them. If a sub wants to give his/her dominant full authority over their entire life, it's theirs to do; if they want to be micromanaged by their dominant, it's their right; if they want to have their dominant dictate what they do with their money, it's their right; if they are ok with their dominant choosing their social activities, who they interact with, where and when they go places ..... IT'S THEIR RIGHT!

People on this site think it's ok to tell others what they can and cannot do in their relationships and at the same time get all upset when people start dictating their dynamic.

And they justify it by posting articles..."look I have proof that you are doing it wrong."

STOP accusing people of being abusive or being abused who are not. STOP appointing yourself savior of people who don't wish to be saved.

Re: Abuse veiled as protocol

WhiteRoses​(sub female) • Aug 27, 2022

My opinion is if you are in a dynamic and the protocols are making you feel uncomfortable or unhappy, it's not right for you. If you have no opportunity for discussions and feedback to determine together what should change, then it's falling under abuse.
I have been at a number of Mast meetings and other discussions and looking at who I am with and saying don't even consider thinking about it. But that's my preferences, not the other person's preferences. And by the same token I have accepted certain situations that others were infuriated by. Again, my relationship and the details are to be worked out between the two of us not the general populace. If you are going to be in a very strict or high protocol dynamic, it's so important to know what your own feelings and expectations are so you can make the best decisions for yourself.
I remember when I first started in the lifestyle I was told a lot of "this is how it is done". I was lucky enough to find some one who confirmed I was being handed a load of crap and helped me learn how to determine what works for me and truly always had and has MY best interest in mind.
What some one from the outside may see as abuse may be something that particular person craves and loves about the relationship. It can only be determined on an individual basis.

alawey​(sub female){(OWNED BY } • Aug 28, 2022

My two cents on this is there is no right or wrong way to have a BDSM dynamic. It is what BOTH people agree to. . It is their right to decide on what they want and need in a dynamic and need to communicate this to each other fully.

Here in lays the issue really I think. Is that there are way to many ppl ( both in vanilla and LS ) that talk and one person sayes this or that . And it is hear by the other but they don't really believe it .
Example: Dom type sayes I want to be able to beat you as hard and as much as I want. You will be chained by a six foot chain to the wall at night in the basement or spare room. Sleeping in on a yoga mat with a 5 gallon bucket to use as a bathroom. . ( Now it's up to the sub type to believe them or not)

This is where some are the types .. that are like " they don't really mean that about me . They say they love me. " or " wow that is interesting ... yet I know that they would never really beat me badly or want to be apart at night, ect"

This is NOT communication because one person is saying what they want/need while the other doesn't believe it. So then they move in together and it starts happening and the sub type is WTF . When they chose not to believe what was told to them . So in this case who is in the wrong?

Or ... example 2..
The sub type falls for the dom type who is a platter. ( Platter .. someone who says all the things you want to hear . When they don't mean it and changes as soon as they catch the sub type.

TOO MANY sub types enter into the kink arena. Without any research on their own, not knowing enough to be safe,and fall into areas that are red flags to many .

@moll .. I believe also there are a lot of ppl that try to tell others what is right or wrong. In my case I can only state what I think/feel is unsafe and why. It is up to the other person to decide if it is the same for them.

moll​(other female){owned slav} • Aug 28, 2022

Yes people should figure out what they really want before getting involved in a dynamic. One should go in eyes wide open. All parties should be up front and honest with each other, but if you want strict protocols, complete domination, and micromanaging....then go for it and no one outside the dynamic has any right to start accusing people of abuse or being abused. No one outside the dynamic has a right to say "your doing it wrong" or no..no...no you are not allowed to do that."

And these same people who are violating other people's boundaries are screaming that people have to respect boundaries.

Butt the hell out hypocrites!

Zelia • Aug 28, 2022

It is hard to understand what someone else craves. Limits, desires and relationships are all so different.

The compulsive spender may find complete freedom in turning over finances to another. Setting them free from debt may be the ultimate gift.

A submissive who fails to be discerning and gives herself to anyone who contacts her may be protected by someone taking control of her social contact. It may save her from being used indiscriminately by people who do not care for her at all.

Following requests with no more than a, ‘Yes Master,’ may be the hearts desire of a slave that thrives on obedience. She may have chosen to give up their limits and safeword quite happily as a result of years of communication and trust. They may be safer with their Master watching over them than they were setting their own limits and never using a safeword, even when they should have.

These are just examples that turn negative examples on their head. There need not be any reason for following such protocols. They are not my own reasons.

What is being described is akin to TPE. As I said previously if someone consents to protocols, such as the ones described, they are not being abused.

Who is qualified to judge?

darlingdiana​(sub female){Protected } • Aug 28, 2022

Dear Masterbear,

Firstly, i am not an expert on abuse or the Full experience or understanding of an M/s dynamic (yes very sad) lol

Secondly, it’s TOTALLY refreshing to read that its been 25 years for the 2 of You or household!!!! That gives newer community members, like myself the satisfaction of it “can” work and “can” last. Thank You kindly!
It must be maintained carefully and it is lovely to see the aspects of the M’s concerns and quality hard work towards the future of the Dynamic Bravo!!

I would consider abuse to be anything the submissive has an internal or otherwise struggle. That they identify as feeling as “it was not discussed, clear, explained or in a progressively slower manner of introduction and securities” and has left those feeling and thoughts within our of any type of fear, including emotional or fear of disappointment. We may feel as we are not pleasing the One we love and say nothing. We need encouragement and love in our M’s ideal way that we are trained to understand, connect with to feel safe and open.

Safe Sane Consensual- are our basics. If we subs do not know it has been a fine line crossed or possible abuse, we feel “off”. Most times due to these implementations neither being agreed or consented on but mainly the communication from sender to receiver followed with a thought process allotment followed by *insert Your Protocol* redirect and assure.

In Your dynamic- i understand the slave has limited say. That is perfectly ok too! As long as he/she is open, happy and comfortable about discussing his/her feelings or permitted to speak “freely” about his/her emotions or distress and attempt to express what is bothering he/her. If she would like offer her opinion upon being asked or asking permission to Her/His s.

This has been most helpful in the past, and encouraged me to to not be afraid of disappointing my former M and politely, but minimal unfortunately.
Communication seems to be the largest barrier to a misunderstanding or worse. When the sender and receiver are clearly not in sync or on the same page.

If my M was wondering these questions, i would not know as a sub but would trust that an M, She/He, would love and be responsible enough with their property and care for their toys by seeking out the proper solutions and regarded confided guidance to not break them in anyway.

So PROUD to see an M this concerned or thoughtful of their beloved property.
Thank You for such a wonderful read! It is not often we subs/prospect slaves get to see this side of the M and it HELPS!

Wishing You and Your household all the best!! Clearly, You are ON it! ♾

dd