Sub drop for recovering addict

aceaceace​(sub female) • Dec 11, 2022

I'm 12 years in recovery and 100% wouldn't recommend your potential sub enter a dynamic if they aren't at least a *solid* 5-6 years of recovery.

What do I mean by *solid* you ask? I mean no relapse or coming close to relapsing.

Other people will tell everyone is different and what works for me may not work for someone else, generally I would be the person spewing that but this is different.

I'm around should you want to send a message to discuss further.

-Ace

LoneWolf​(masochist gender queer) • Dec 12, 2022

What's a "sub drop" when addiction is something that can affect everyone regardless if they are sub or Dom?

Addiction is a disease that can affect the best of us regardless of our wealth or social status. I don't understand what you mean by the term "sub drop." Are you planning on seeing someone that's in recovery only to dump them because they have or are working on a problem? That would be really messed up!

moll​(other female){owned slav} • Dec 12, 2022

"Sub drop" is what happens after the high of being taken into "sub space," or "bottom space," which is the high that happens during a play session, ie flogging, canning, spanking, intense sex, etc. The brain gets flooded with endorphins, which causes a euphoric feeling, and the "drop" is when the endorphin level diminishes and the body goes back to "normal." Sometimes the "drop" is gradual and pleasant, but there are times when it's more of a "crash." It's basically, or so I've been told, like when drugs wear off. It can be harder on a person that has an issue with drug addiction, so it's a real concern for a recovering addict.

When it comes to a Top or Dom, it's generally called "top space." They can reach the same highs and feel the same "drop" as the submissive/bottom.

LoneWolf​(masochist gender queer) • Dec 12, 2022

Ah, okay thanks!

I enjoy a good session of "subspace" having my limits tested etc. One time I was tied, humiliated and beaten senseless to the point of once the session was over. I had to be helped to a chair until I was able to breathe say "WOW!" It was quite an experience!

I am still fighting drug and alcohol abuse. I am not perfect but I choose to not drink or use. I've found that videogames are a much better and healthier outlet for when I want to make an "ass" of myself. I don't find what others may claim as "sexual abuse" upon myself when I agree on such terms and everyone is an consenting adult. I also like to DOM/TOP others but I have never gotten into as you say "top space" with that.

Strange?

Great conversation.

moll​(other female){owned slav} • Dec 12, 2022

I'm glad that you are in recovery. I hear that's a hard thing to deal with. I get distracting yourself with video games.

Maybe not every top reaches "top space." I'm not even sure that every bottom/sub reaches "sub space" while playing. I know that I have not been brought to that point every time that I have played.

Agreed this is a good thread. It's important that people on either side of the proverbial coin understands that people who deal with addictions, abuse, etc. have to be extra careful when playing.

snowfalcon​(sub male) • Dec 15, 2022

Good stuff.

I won't tell you what to do. I'll share my experience. I'm 25 years without a drink. (Not saying that fishing for accolades. Only to establish what's behind the experience I'll share.)

Lotta stuff was tangly on my interiors and still is. I reengaged with scene/lifestyle about a year after I got sober (also divorced about the same time).

I'd never noticed "sub drop" before. Probably because my insides, being tangly to begin with? "Drop" wasn't much different than my recent normal. For me it was rather one of those things that when folks started talking about it, I was thinking "Oh? There's words for that?"

My experience was that the post scene "drop" wasn't that much different than the transition from heavy work or exercise to resting. Or even what happens post orgasm for most males. (There's more going on than just wanting to roll over and drift off. And if things are rather active before the orgasm and I do drift off? I probably sleep through the "drop".)

The challenge for me was and sometimes still is sorting through what's going on *inside*. Some of why I know I drank was to deal with a very chaotic interior. If there wasn't time, or there was a lot of chaos in my environment, "processing" in more healthy ways would be shortchanged. Drunk I could defer the processing. Which meant that when I got sober I had a mess of catching up to do.

My drop is usually cognitive-emotional. Yes, there are hormones -- among them endorphins, adrenaline and dopamine, and, for myself, I'm certain there's a mess of other neuro-transmitters that get pumped, dumped and whatever in a scene -- before, during and after the scene. Part of why I seek scenes is both for the long term effect of all that and for the "roller coaster ride" of that process. That's where much of the pleasure and euphoria comes from. I'm literally, chemically, physiologically thinking and feeling different after a scene than before. In the first scenes sober, I actually found the anticipation more disturbing than the drop after. I'd get so anxious that it was very difficult to communicate well before hand.

Fortunately, at that time I was in a healthy kink community which happened to include several people who were professionals in various aspects of psychology and psychiatry who encouraged my being open about what was happening, and helped me understand what was going on. It took a bit to find a Dominant who had the patience to work with me, and who discerned the gold amid my dross.

The upsides were many, however. And the challenges I mentioned turned out to be fairly manageable. Other challenges surfaced.

On the upside. Since I was taking my recovery and mental health seriously I was doing the work, willing to do the work, and developing all kinds of methods and experience for communicating, assessing myself, untangling my insides, and more. All those things I needed to do to reclaim my life? Well they worked post-scene.

I came to an important conclusion: from one angle BDSM? Scenes? Are just life. Just like all the other stuff I have to deal with.

Another was that part of why I was there -- seeking Tops and Dominants, seeking scenes and play -- was because at some level the play I was after did good things. The drop might be hard but it would pass. After it was like I'd showered on the inside too. Because of the community I was in? It was OK to ask for a "theraputic flogging". Less about erotic stuff and relating and more like a deep massage to move the toxins out of the body.

And there was a time about two years sober, where I think mind and body were finally moving past the effects of the years of drinking and I felt things as I never had before. I got my body back. It was wonderful.

Boiling that all down?

Patience and communication are key. They go hand in hand. The communication might not be perfect all around a scene. That's where the patience comes in.

Aftercare is a thing. And it might not look the same for everyone. I'm not a fuzzy blanket and bottle of water and cuddles kind of bottom. Yeah, I need the water, usually. More than cuddles and blanket, I tend to do better with the collar staying on, a short leash, a boot or a foot under my mouth so I can say thank you without words, and maybe a firm caring hand on the back of my head while I'm showing my gratitude.

Debrief multiple times and not always immediately following. Rather like with sex: don't hold people to, or take to heart, what they say when their emotions are high.

Keep things simple. KISS. Greater intensity, more complexity come.

Be careful of too much patience. Patience is great for an hour or a day. A vague "we'll get there" that turns into never getting there ruins trust. Both ways.

Also conditions. "Bad sub: no scene." is reasonable and logical at first. If I'm a hot mess? Sometimes I need the scene or something like a scene before I can be good enough to deserve the scene. Awareness of that kind of logic all around helps.

All the tools that the recovering person needs to use? Everyone should be aware of them (and probably would benefit by using them.) The time to just be. The mindfulness. The allowance of time for recovery and processing experiences. The acceptance and freedom to feel how I feel and not worry about how I'm *supposed to feel*.

And the last, and the hardest ... If I'm drawn to someone? If they're drawn to me? We're alike. Deeply alike. Maybe they're Dom/me and I'm sub. Doesn't matter. We're alike. Which means we generally have the same issues. They may present in different ways? We're still dealing with the same stuff.

Bluntly put? I've been with and attracted to Dominants who never used drink or drugs addictively. More often than not, if we're connecting? They're doing something else, generally more socially acceptable, but still fundamentally, rather addictive. I heard early on "The drink or the drug is symptom of something else. It's not the addiction: it's what's behind the addiction."

Whichever side you're on in the equation? Be prepared for a look in the mirror. For needing to confront troublesome things about yourself. Likely the same sorts of things your partner is confronting. That can be hard. But where my partner hasn't flinched from their own work? It's made for a really solid bond.

I've said too much.

Your mileage may vary.

Beast of luck.

KatyLatex​(dom female) • Dec 15, 2022

Thank you so much for all your replies, it is really insightful to hear from peoples experiences in this.

My sub is my life partner and someone I care about a lot. We will be living together so I will be there to support him if he experiences sub drop. We’ve only tried very mild BDSM stuff together before, but are thinking of trying more. It is because we know each other so well I think it could lead to really intense scenes, but i think this could cause more intense sub drop too.

I have been learning a lot about addiction this year. And learning and reflecting on myself a lot too, I though that was a very insightful point, thank you snowfalcon.

snowfalcon​(sub male) • Dec 15, 2022

You're certainly welcome.
Ummm ... something I just thought of, and I'm just going to leave it here.

My "drop"? And whatever else that goes with relationship, scene, what have you? That's *mine*. My drop. My feel good. My bad. Mine.
Not selfishly. Responsibly.

The biggest mistake I ever made when a Dominant said something like "I'm your Dominant. I have responsibility for your (whatever)." ? Was agreeing. Was accepting that, and getting tighter and playing into their taking responsibility or what was mine. What no one else could really do anything about.
I love care and support. Trying to "own" stuff like that?

When someone does that they're trying to step between me and my demons. (Yes, if I'm honest, I still have them. We get along. Now.) Others do not do well between me and my demons. They and I dance close. Rock and hard place close.

My bad is if I play along with that. "Own what's yours to own. And only your own." (I usually say that in more blunt terms.)