Manipulation

Manipulation

tallslenderguy​(other male) • May 13, 2020

i'm going to try to keep this short(er). my posts have a tendency to become books, and it seems many are not inclined to read books. It's going to be hard, i think this is a big topic, but i'm going to contain myself to questions and, hopefully, for ongoing discussion on this.

A common theme that i have seen in both Dom and sub posts, profiles, is a desire for sincerity and openness. Seems pretty straight forward, who doesn't want to know who they are dealing with, especially in an intimate relationship.

Yet, it seems to me that at least forms of manipulation are used by both Dom's and subs? i googled and think this is a good working definition that has both the positive and negative connotations included:

"Manipulation is the skillful handling, controlling or using of something or someone. ... But this word also has some negative connotations — a manipulative person knows how to twist words, play on emotions and otherwise manage a situation in a sneaky fashion to get what [they] want."

Questions:
1. Do you use manipulation? If so, is it direct or indirect and why do you choose one form over another.
2. Does manipulating another give you a sense of gratification or arousal?
3. Does being manipulated by another give you a sense of gratifcation or arousal?

These are only a few questions, please add your own and any thoughts and feelings you might have on the topic.
(cool, i kept i short)

annabellestasia​(sub female) • May 13, 2020

Hey!

We as human beings are naturally predisposed to learn to read others, understand them and adapt our communication and behaviour so as to get the best outcome. I don’t think this is manipulation. Manipulation is when lies and deception are involved and/or the intended outcome isn’t just?

I’d say I don’t like to therefore manipulate or be manipulated! The only way to control or handle me is through directness, strength of will and being intellectually challenged!

Re: Manipulation

MissBonnie​(dom female){oz} • May 14, 2020

1. I don't like to think, I do manipulate, to get what I want but I'm sure there might be some that occurs. We are all human like annabellestasia stated. I don't like to be manipulated so avoid doing it with others in a purposeful manner that is underhanded or deceitful. I don't cry to get my way. I don't pout to get my way. I don't think if I do this, he'll do that and then I can "x" unless its maybe in scene like set up but consent would of been given to begin with so is it still "manipulation" in this case?

2. Nope, no arousal from manipulating. I prefer to have every thing offered to me, to take if I want. I love and get off on the power play, the pull and tug, the give and take of mutually agreed and negotiated TPE. I find it hot when TPE offered with trust. Placing that trust in myself and my abilities is like pure lust to me. Knowing I could seriously fuck you up but letting me, knowing that it wasn't manipulated or tricked is so hot to me. Its how my submissives let down their guard and allow me ALL OF THEM.

3. If I'm tricked to anything and I find out, I'm done! Honesty and trust has value to me. If I feel I'm being manipulated my guard goes up. If I expect not to be manipulated...shouldn't I offer it in return? of course I'm human I'm going to occasionally screw up but all I can do is try.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • May 14, 2020

Re-posting the definition of manipulation because, while it can have a negative connotation, manipulation is not necessarily bad? One may manipulate a lock to open a door for instance. The word "manipulation" comes to mind as i read through and learn more about D/s. my question/s are not intended to cast it in a positive or negative light, but to parse out what is.

[/quote]"Manipulation is the skillful handling, controlling or using of something or someone. ...

But this word also has some negative connotations — a manipulative person knows how to twist words, play on emotions and otherwise manage a situation in a sneaky fashion to get what [they] want." [/quote]

1. In the context of the above definition (the definition is a google copy and paste), could the role of the Dom be construed as "manipulative?" For instance, is "punishment" a form of manipulating (i.e., "skillful handle, controlling... a sub?

2. Continuing with the instance of "punishment" in number one, can/does a Dom experience arousal and/or gratification from using the manipulation of punishment?

3. Continuing with the instance of "punishment" in number one, can/does a sub experience arousal and/or gratification from receiving the manipulation of punishment?

Here's an example of what i am talking about that i read in a Dom's profile that i think covers both sides of this beautifully: " I don't particularly care for "games" wherein the girl intentionally disobeys just to get punished. However, on occasion, a girl needs correction, and that may be painful for us both for a time -- but pain is never the object, only the means. If a girl wants a spanking, she can bloody well ask for one, without the silly games."

And from the sub side, i read this explanation of a sub brat from Kinkly: "Brattiness or brat play is a sub section of Dominant/submissive play. Some people who take the role of brat enjoy being 'put in their place' rather than submitting easily. Likewise, some Dominants enjoy the challenge of getting a brat under control...Some brats use talking back, or phrases such as 'Is that all you've got?' as a way to goad their top into heavier play."

sweet november​(sub female) • May 14, 2020

Manipulation....

Definition you posted:
"/quote]"Manipulation is the skillful handling, controlling or using of something or someone. ..."

That definition doesn't sound bad. As long as both parties communicate. And that manipulating of someone is not intended to cause harm, emotional or physical.

I don't have the energy to play guessing games, though, the ones meant to keep you wondering what is going on or where you stand in a relationship.

Usually, though, in a playful, sensual way.. A submissive likes to be the clay for a Dominant. To feel him working on her, manipulating her, for his pleasure and hers.
A balancing act, blind folded with trust, don't let go or both will fall.

rosethorn​(sub female) • May 14, 2020

Interesting i have used the term mentally masochistic before now.i would say yes but with consent from everyone involved and its with things that don't actually matter .... like holding a door open.

pipchick​(sub female){Taken} • May 16, 2020

"3. Continuing with the instance of "punishment" in number one, can/does a sub experience arousal and/or gratification from receiving the manipulation of punishment?"

Interesting... within our TPE we have already negotiated that traditional BDSM punishments like spanking etc will never be used to actually punish. Both of us want to enjoy those things, and we do not like the psychological taint of me associating them with displeasing Him, especially since in my case such things are very cathartic.

Manipulation punishments or correction is limited to things like lines, and typing tasks. Removal of a privilege etc.

Daddy does not like punishing me, and I am truly sorry when I make it that he has to. It means I have gone against what I myself negotiated and consent to. And I don't like to make my Daddy sad.

Bunnie • May 16, 2020

I am of the belief that consensual bdsm involves a form of consensual manipulation. Some of the more experienced Masters I know and know of, are quite open about using manipulation within their dynamic. I always appreciate the openness and realistic views that people who are willing to dissect these things to look at them at their core, seem to possess. That in itself builds my trust in them and their ability to view things realistically.

I believe that any situation created to get a desired outcome from another (meeting an expectation)... there will be manipulation involved. How that is presented will vary depending on the people involved.

I hope this makes sense, as I have a feeling this is a topic that can have words/meanings twisted very easily.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • May 16, 2020

Hey all, thanks for the thoughtful replies. i'm a critical care nurse and work 13 our shifts, currently on rotation, so am not able to dig in and participate till i'm back off work again. Just didn't want anyone to think i've disappeared. i typically work a week on and then have a week off, so have lots of time when off, none when working. i appreciate the responses and thoughts to this, i think there is more to it than meets the eye, so i like it when lots of "eyes' are considering it. i'm not trying to start a debate, just looking for open discussion.
Thanks all.

LordofPain56 • May 17, 2020

To me, manipulation is a deceptive, underhanded and dis-honest way of getting somebody to do or to give you something that they want (usually because they already know that you are opposed to doing or giving that which they want).
I have always preferred the direct and honest approach.
Back in the days when I had a partner, there was a rule-book in which one of the many things that was written was that manipulation was forbidden. And there was a written "covenant" that revealed to her everything about my character traits, lifestyle and promises. She too was required to submit her own covenant that did likewise prior to a committed relationship even starting. If the covenant was detailed enough (as I believe mine left nothing to be discovered), she'd already know what I was opposed to. And, if she felt there were "deal-breakers" in the covenant, we would simply part ways and she could find someone else who was more to her liking. A "deal-breaker" is something that you can't live with.