Relationship Desires M

Solace(dom male)

3 days ago • Nov 20, 2024

B L O N D I E wrote:

It always amazes me how many men on here say they want long term relationships with someone they love, trust, and connect with. The younger ones are looking for people they can start families with. This is a kink site. Outsiders might expect us to be all about jumping into bed with whoever, but when it really comes down to it, our truest desires are to feel connected, to feel loved, and to have long-lasting relationships that feed our souls. This site has taught me that more than anything. Men are just as interested in security and long-term family connection-building as women.

I think a lot of what you mentioned about "women want money and men want beauty" is a function of immaturity. Both sides drop this as they get older and realize what is really important. They drop what they think society wants them to want and realize that the true wealth is in the heart connection and building something that is going to last, not all that superficial stuff.

I think this is good insight B L O N D I E ( Your cage name is wonderful but truly slows me down in typing)

I agree with some of what your saying here. A lot of men really care about legacy, about being appreciated for what they do. Long term relationships, families and careers are all paths a great deal of men see as validation of this point.

However, you cut at a good men who might offer real perspective. Lets say the whole world was hooked up to this forum. How many men would have to tell you that they feel a significant portion of ladies valued them for money, before it was real insight an not a mark of immaturity? This is a learned experience many men have. And when its voiced, men are often ridiculed. An equivalent statement is ladies saying a great deal of men just want sex.

Ladies feel used for the bodies and men for their wallet. The entire dating scene is arranged to use men as pay pigs. As I've outlined previously, men are expected to have cars for rides, money for nice dinners, their own places to host. Men pay to get into bars and clubs, they buy drinks for the ladies. Dating websites charge men and not women, if you look at the number of premium members here its a landslide men. The list goes on.

Lets say for a fraction of a second, that all ladies values men for their money. Just a fraction of a second. I'm not saying that's bad. And I'm not saying its bad if we say for a fraction of a second that all men just want sex from pretty girls. What I am saying is, what do ladies want. What do men want. We have a real chance to learn something here if we lay our cards down on the table in pleasant fashion.

B L O N D I E(sub female)

3 days ago • Nov 20, 2024

Again, I think you're looking at a very small fraction of the pool of entire human race. You're talking about a subsection of the online dating world that does not in any way reflect what men and women actually want. In fact, what you just said validates my point.

Frankly, both men and women get treated the way they will tolerate. No one is making men put up with women who treat them as a wallet the same way no one is making women put up with men who treat them as bodies. If they are being treated that way, it's because they lack the perspective, boundaries, and self-respect to demand that they be treated any better. These people are desperate for something they will never get so they put up with bad behavior from the opposite sex.

None of this anything to do with what both want. If your point has any validity at all, then you are proving I am correct that women don't want this arrangement any more than men do.

It would be so easy for men to ignore gold-digging women and for women to ignore men who are so obviously only interested in sex. Those that don't do this are the ones who suffer. Hopefully, they will learn something and correct their dating standards to reflect what they really want.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world doesn't have this problem. They value marriage, family, raising the next generation, and building a society that works instead of fixating on instant gratification.

Solace(dom male)

3 days ago • Nov 20, 2024

RoseUndressed wrote:

Solace wrote:

RoseUndressed wrote:

I often hear from women on here, or from female friends, that all they really want is to be heard. To be understood. And I feel the same came be said for men.

It has been said that I can get blood from a stone. That leave me with a person for 5 minutes and I will have their deepest life story. Leave me 10 and I'll have their deepest desires. I pride myself on it. I make exceptionally good money from it as a dancer who is hired, more often, for her listening skills than her body or ability to dance.

Ask any adult dancer, and they will tell you that listening, hearing without judgement, and allowing honesty and vulnerability is the largest part of their job. And I think that is because it is what all people really desire - to be heard.

RoseUndressed,

I think you make an interesting point but I also think you are an exception. I think that men do at times wish to talk about their lives, but I don't believe they often enjoy doing it with people close to them. Rather I suspect you to be a stranger they don't expect to meet again, someone they can vent to without consequences for those who do seek it. I also suspect that your clients are men who lack a strong capacity to do this in their regular life so they are particularly drawn in when intimacy is offered.

I dont think I'm an exception. I think the want to be heard is a very human trait and something that makes us all feel understood and valued. It is something I have experienced from people both professionally and personally. Significant partners have said that is one of the things they have most valued in relationships - the space to be free and open, to be listened to and understood, and accepted.

I think the difference in genders around this comes from societal expectations. Men, typically, are taught not to open up - that to be vulnerable in a relationship is, somehow, demeaning. Yes - this means a lot of men seek safe places outside of a relationship where they can be more open about their vulnerabilities or at times their desires (which for many is a vulnerable space to explore). However, I would say these men lack something in their relationships - something they desire and therefore have to seek elsewhere. Perhaps the relationship is flawed if that need (and i think it's quite a basic need) cannot be met.

This is really good, I love this. I think there are some great things to talk about here.

I agree with you. Men do want to be heard and listened to. We do want someone we can open up with. But I think a key point is what we are willing to open up about. Its why even when men have a relationship with their best friend in the world, the absolute girl of their dreams... its extremely healthy for them to still have guy friends, or at least an outside circle. A lot of men are happy to open up about some things, but not everything and not everyone at once. There is an expectation a lot of men feel to be useful, competent, capable. Opening up too much can chip away at that. You might say no, it does not. That's not the experience all men get though. For those who do, I solute them, stay with that group of people.

I agree that this comes from societal expectations. I don't really think its a bad thing to have societal expectations though. I also don't think we feel that being vulnerable is demeaning. Rather that we don't believe it will help. Men are typically solution driven. I know from experience that while some conversations in the form of venting are very cathartic, but talking about real issues I have can just feel like reliving a nightmare I can't solve.

Its one of the issues modern therapy has with men. The therapy focused on their feelings can drive some men to feel more helpless, or men are not aware of the good therapists that can help them find solutions. Men typically and more distinctly benefit from solutions and their own personal ability to generate them.

Solace(dom male)

3 days ago • Nov 20, 2024

RoseUndressed wrote:

"I think that men do at times wish to talk about their lives, but I don't believe they often enjoy doing it with people close to them."

This statement also makes me very sad. If you can't talk about your life with someone who you are close to - then perhaps you're not that close.

It does seem sad when phrased that way. I think its sad.

However a different view point suggests it isn't all that bad. Men tend to bond very strongly with people they shared suffering with or accomplished things with. They're friend groups tend to be quite intimate and tied to people they trust completely to have their back in a particularly tough time, people that they see themselves being able to take on huge challenges with.

As result though I hear our close friend groups tend to be very small. On the order of a third or less of what the average woman would call her close friends.

Solace(dom male)

3 days ago • Nov 20, 2024

B L O N D I E wrote:

I completely disagree with you still. You're assuming that your original post didn't contain any opinions and that it was completely neutral, but it wasn't. Your question (if we take it at face value) presumes that we want different things, which I believe is problematic within itself. I completely disagree that it's braver and more compassionate to focus on the differences rather than the commonalities. I believe it's asking for trouble and will only sew division.

I stand by whatever principle of your original post I may have undermined or dug at. I believe the principle to be false and even dangerous to our harmony as a species.

From a logical point of view, any premise is available for attack in a civil debate. Therefore, any premise you offered in your post is up for disagreement. There are no sacred cows here.

You said, "The stance of the question is phrased as men and women desire different things." I disagree that they desire different things. I think this is flawed, divisive, and fallacious thinking. I believe all the rest of your arguments rest on this bed of sand and will and should therefore be torn down so no one agrees with them.

You contradicted yourself later in your response when you said, "I don't believe I'm using a straw mans argument, as if men and women have different perspectives they will inherently desire different things."

This is in fact exactly what you just said earlier in the same post. You're telling me that they have different perspectives and this entire thread should be focused on those. Now you are changing it to say the exact opposite. It sounds to me like you don't really understand your own thinking, which is why you aren't making coherent arguments to support your position.

B L O N D I E, I am enjoying our discussion. However, I do wish you would pay little more attention to what I do say and put less of what you think I'm saying in your responses. I'll try to highlight for you so you have some idea of what I mean as we go along.

I never said the question was neutral. I have intentionally created a dichotomy. Yes, the nature of the question establishes the concept of men and women having difference preferences. You continually assert that there not difference, this absolutely fine for our discussion, however it does further strengthen my point that your first and continued responses have at least some aims at devaluing or attacking that premise. I was correct at least on that point. And no I am not saying its sacred, this again not something I have said, but rather was forced to explain previously.

I have never said we should focus more on the differences than the commonalities. But to focus more on one things implies, that there at least some fractional amount of time to focus on the other.

Equally, and this is the most disrespectful of your claims I intend to be, I find your idea that identifying difference is negative thing a truly ludicrous argument. Diversity is a truly powerful tool. But knowing when we are not sufficiently diverse requires identifying that we don't have sufficient differences. It is common relationship ship phrase to find someone who compliments your weaknesses. A strong relationship phrase which dominates both in the western style of falling in love, as in the more eastern style of learning to love. This is diversity. It does in fact exist, its undeniable. You can't look at another person without seeing it.

So differences do exist, and they are not divisive, flawed or fallacious as you say. They are not a weakness but an asset when identified. This is so much of the foundation we know of for success in almost everything from genetics, to business, to scientific development. Its foundational. Its powerful and good. New York would so much less a wondrous place for not knowing how diverse it is.

The only remaining point then is to identify if such diversity exists between men and women. And yes it does. We see men and women having different perspective in nearly every single aspect we can possibly quantify. Advertisements are directly tailored to men or women. These alone are powerful things with incomprehensible quantities of work hours and dollars spent understanding. We see this in job preferences, what ladies tend to aspire towards vs men. We see these trends in hobbies, methods of speech, our very genetics and bodies are different. It is the smallest of jumps to say that preferences exist in how men and women perceive and desire relationships. And its not even a jump, studies exist again to show there are trends in these preferences. Again I emphasize these are not weaknesses. These complimentary things. There may be things we don't enjoy, the same way I prefer to not stand too long in front of mirror. But its still me at the end of the day and what I may not enjoy may be someone else's fascination.

I am coherent arguments. I am not moving the goal posts. What people want is tied to their perspectives in life. If I have the exact same perspective as someone else, I will choose the same foods, I will dress the same, I will seek the same work. If you want to keep the language consistent and use only the words "want from a relationship" we can do that. Its very easy as the use of these things is essentially synonymous.

Solace(dom male)

3 days ago • Nov 20, 2024

B L O N D I E wrote:

I think you're right and wrong at the same time. Absolutely people will be treated the way they tolerate. However there is real aspect to this that is undeniable. Lets say I only want to interact with blue people (people who don't value me for my wallet). I can put my foot down and say no. No more. None of that.

What if their are no blue people though? It essentially an ultimatum. " I won't have to deal with blue people but at least I have my self respect, and can die alone with it." . That sucks. A lot. Yes, its an extreme example. but we don't have to make it that extreme for it to have real and serious impacts. 1/8 of people are blue. Thats a lot of people just auto checked no. I might live in an area highly concentrated with blue people. The a large number of the blue people might have both red polka dots AND green stripes that I really really like. We can water this example down even further. There are shades of blue people.

And that is what the average "person" faces. Not just male or female but both. There are a lot of pros and cons to everyone. The trick seems to be find what you love, accept what you can and hopefully learn to love all of it. Somewhere in there a little tinge of blue gets in, and people have a threshold for tolerance. Problem is, a lot of people can feel that they see a lot of at least a little blue. Ladies express it about mens desire for sex all the time, and men express it about money.

This has everything to do with what people want. Sometimes its just the flipside, what they don't want.

Its a big jump to say the rest of the world doesn't have this problem. Its also a big jump to say they don't have it because of "this" when equally valid proposals say its because we don't address these sort of things.

B L O N D I E(sub female)

3 days ago • Nov 20, 2024

You're making my argument for me. Your analogy would only hold water if there were only blue people around which obviously there aren't. By the same token, you're saying that men and women have to put up with this behavior because they have no other options, which is nonsense.

Putting up with this behavior is exactly the reason why this behavior exists. If people exercised some standards, the problem wouldn't exist at all. It would quickly die away when the people who are exercising this behavior no longer had any options because the people they are pursuing wouldn't be interested anymore.

Let's say a billionaire man is surrounded by women who are only after his money and only care about what kind of car he drives. If he completely ignored these women and no longer surrounded himself with them, if he instead looked more carefully for a woman who was less interested in that and more interested in building a lasting, meaningful relationship with him, the gold-diggers in his life would disappear. They would seek another billionaire elsewhere. If all the billionaires did the same thing, these women would quickly realize that the billionaires weren't looking for them. The gold diggers would have no choice but to change their ways.

The only reason these behaviors exist is because so many people are entertaining them and rewarding the behavior with results. The problem only exists for people who are living in the bubble where this behavior is the reality. There is a whole world of other people outside the bubble who don't buy into this and aren't interested in it at all.

I've noticed this in your thinking elsewhere on the site, Solace. I believe you are making my point for me that this is both immature thinking and extremely divisive in an unnecessary way. You are living within this bubble where the differences are overly exaggerated when they don't actually extend to reality in general.

Solace(dom male)

3 days ago • Nov 20, 2024

B L O N D I E wrote:

B L O N D I E, I confess for the fist time I weary of discussing with you right here: "Your analogy would only hold water if there were only blue people around". Its a metaphor. And very good one which is an excellent tool you aren't considering long enough to grasp how it can be used. It is always true to some degree. Always. Its a reduction of logic this rather unbreakable. I used ladies who care about money as and example of what blue people could be. It does not have to be that. It could people with brown hair. Which does exist, and they won't stop existing just because I refuse to tolerate them. Unless murder is on the table, and I would hope we both agree that at least is wrong.

Its not a bubble. Its not immaturity. Having a viewpoint is not immaturity. If anything I could completely flip the tables on you, which I refused to do because I would prefer if we could stay civil but I don't get the feeling your not as inclined. So lets go there for a just a moment.

"Its not a bubble. Its you refusing to listen. Its you being so set in your ways, that you refuse to acknowledge the actual experience that men are actually living. Not admittedly not all, but many many more than none. Rather than taking this opportunity to ask, and see what men feel...you reject them. You invalidate their existence and their perspective. You don't care for them, and you don't try. You don't listen to them. Ultimately your correct these men don't exist. Because to you they are irrelevant. Liars. Deceivers. Viewpoints to be squashed. Its you refusing that men have challenges unique to them that they are trying to solve. Much the same way that ladies have issues and we have to press of ladies rights, men have real social issues they face. But not to you, but you exist in your tiny bubble that nothing can penetrate.

We ask why men don't share their feelings and perspectives... this. Right here. A complete militaristic silencing of their thoughts."

^ See thats not nice. And thats not fair to you. I certainly hope it doesn't encapsulate your views. Whats up there isn't entirely wrong about what is happening here though. This could have been an awesome forum for men to post about what they want in relationships. Some genuine surprises could have (and could still be) learned about what excites men about a pretty lass. And yet we just can't seem to allow that to happen.

Instead it does feel like its become at least a little vitriolic. I'm really sure I'm the divisive one here if you keep taking this approach to debate. So I would genuinely appreciate it if you could show me just smidge more respect. We don't need to sling mud at each other here. We absolutely can have a useful discussion about this. We can go back, lay some ground work and establish more basic common grounds.

B L O N D I E(sub female)	B L O N D I E(sub female) 3 days ago • Nov 20, 2024 3 days ago • Nov 20, 2024 B L O N D I E(sub female) • Nov 20, 2024 I have no idea where you got that quote, but it didn't come from me, so it seems like you're skimming again.

Solace(dom male)	Solace(dom male) 3 days ago • Nov 20, 2024 3 days ago • Nov 20, 2024 Solace(dom male) • Nov 20, 2024 B L O N D I E wrote: I have no idea where you got that quote, but it didn't come from me, so it seems like you're skimming again. I put in quotes so you could recognize it as what I was holding up as an example. No I'm not skimming. I am thoroughly reading your responses word for word.