Financially supporting another

Financially supporting another

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Aug 14, 2020

This topic is touched on often, but haven't seen a post strictly dedicated to one person bing the sole financial support in a relationship, and i am interested to read peoples views on this.

Personally (i.e., i don't consider my "personal" disposition to be universal), i don't consider anyone who cannot support their self, who is not self sustaining, to be relationship ready. i've been in a 'tradition' relationship where i was the sole financial supporter, so i know how it works. i have also lived as single the last 12 years. i do all my own cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc., and frankly, it doesn't come near the amount of work i do outside the home to make a living. I.e., to me, just from an all things being equal standpoint, the work i do to 'win bread' is a whole lot more than the work i do to at home to make the home ('homemaker') . But i understand, that's just the practical stuff, i know some want the dynamic of keeper/kept, breadwinner/homemaker.

Personally, i end up feeling used in the role of 'breadwinner' and am never emotionally sure if the person is in, or wants the relationship, because they love me or because i provide for them, so i'd rather be alone than in that kind of relationship.

Curious to know how others think and feel about this?

Canislupus​(sub female) • Aug 14, 2020

Hey,
I would have to agree.
I feel like regardless of the kind of relationship you have, both partners should always have the kind of independence, both financial and emotional, to allow them to make rational choices.
That does not exclude from gift giving, or playing a certain role in a bdsm sense. But one should always be in a position where they can say no without fearing financial repercussions. True enjoyment can then ensue in knowing that both parties are there because they chose to, not because they have to.

Canislupus​(sub female) • Aug 14, 2020

Hey,
I would have to agree.
I feel like regardless of the kind of relationship you have, both partners should always have the kind of independence, both financial and emotional, to allow them to make rational choices.
That does not exclude from gift giving, or playing a certain role in a bdsm sense. But one should always be in a position where they can say no without fearing financial repercussions. True enjoyment can then ensue in knowing that both parties are there because they chose to, not because they have to.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Aug 14, 2020

Thank you for your reply (all of it). i separated out this part of it to respond to because i appreciate and think it an important point. "Gift giving" to me is a whole other category, with a different attitude attached. To me, the biggest stand out is gift giving is not obligatory, not an expectation. i don't think it should be anyway, though some make it such. To me, that smacks of immaturity when a person expects to be gifted, even on special occasions. A gift also loses it's significance for me if i think the person is just giving it because they have to, because it's a birthday or holiday. To me, the significance of a gift is giving it because i want to bring pleasure to that person, i.e. they are the reason for the gift, not the obligation of occasion or their expectation born out of some sense of deserving. To me, if the person is convinced they deserve something, it's no longer a gift, it's remuneration or compensation: quid pro quo.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Aug 14, 2020

And what if the ONLY way to focus on the relationship is to be supported financially?

Let's face it. Work can drain you. Zap you. First it's "ideas". But then it's "awareness". Suddenly mental health can get threatened. Because you can't even think anymore and get so little time to be happy. Maybe it's the jobs that should change and not the person.

There's also only so many jobs. And there will always be more people then jobs. That's another factor. Work shouldn't be "made up" for the sake of it. People have to feel like they're doing something worthwhile. Or their own sense of self worth may well suffer.

To say "Not relationship ready" is to demean everyone in a relationship where they're financially supported. You don't know the context of their relationships. Some will be bad of course but some have good reason. Not the least of which is sanity. Their partners, not just their own.

With corvid some people are concerned about their partners getting sick and wanting them to stay at home for physical health. Especially concerning if someone ALREADY has health issues. This is an example of obvious physical health. Mental is more subtle. Sad fact is many are blind to the mental part. You want a sign of "independence" perhaps? Well, if someone shows they have more ability in other areas then you do, that's independence. What's more it proves you're the LESS capable one. And if that person ALSO improves you as a person that's going beyond the call of duty. Perhaps it's only possible if someone dedicates themselves fully to that goal. Like a "job".

Now, if someone is going to look after another person and put in "the work" (literary) this ALSO means the other person has to have something to offer back in return. What that is, is going to depend on who you ask, obviously. But it could be something like "They're that creative and entertaining". Or "They're that capable of keeping you safe in so many situations". And "They're always honest and loyal even through the worst". So on and so forth.

If you're ALREADY working and the other person provides sufficient entertainment value (or/and provides other benefits. Like improving you as a person for example) then you're probably going to be more inclined to invest in that. The person could be "needy" but perhaps they "need little" financially. Not everyone needs to get fancy things.

On the other hand if someone never listens, puts up brick walls at every turn and goes out of their way to be difficult on purpose then that's an issue even if they are working. But could it be because they're doing so much work already and can't focus? That will depend.

Some people don't work and make excuses to be incapable in the areas that really matter. Like not being what they complain about. Before even touching finance or relationships examine results in other areas. THAT'S how you tell if someone is ready for a relationship.

Here's the thing. A LOT of people don't have those results in other areas. But some do. Those that don't yet, can learn. if they don't choose to be ignorant. Those that don't even consider? I'm saying that's a danger, work or not. I get others to take me in because I get results in other areas. But if I'M going to do that show you have some kind of talent in the areas that really matter. "Safety. Control. Ideas." Prove you're not a threat and that you can amuse me. THEN we can talk about who takes in who and what for.

Considering it's entirely dependent on who you ask there's no simple answer. All i can really say is "Find out". With each person you come across. It's like relationships itself. Most just won't be worth it. But sometimes you come across someone that is.

Re: Financially supporting another

Lexxa​(sub female) • Aug 14, 2020

I can relate to this. I've been in a vanilla relationship before where I was the sole financial provider and based on that experience, never again. It didn't help that I'd come home and have to do all the housework as well. I actually really enjoy housework, but when I've just returned home from a mentally grueling job to see that the other person didn't even have the courtesy to take their dirty dishes to the kitchen, it wears on you as the years go by. Weekly discussions about things needing to change seemingly just went over their head so I finally said enough is enough one day and told them I was moving on and they had X number of days to find a place to live because I terminated the lease. The real kicker is that the only reason I even agreed to live together in the first place was because we agreed things would be easier financially if we split the living expenses since Seattle isn't exactly a cheap place to live. Joke was on me clearly.

I have no qualms being the one making the higher income in a relationship, but I refuse to end up the sole provider again. Admittedly the experience has left me jaded in regards to sharing a living space with someone else. I imagine someday I'll take that leap again with someone who has a proven track record of living independently, but for the time being I'm very content living solo and providing for just myself and my dog lol.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Aug 14, 2020

Eh, damn, i'm sorry. i feel you. i had a similar experience that admittedly left a pretty deep mark. i supported a person (married) for 31 years. We entered relationship when we were both very young, had a conservative religious background where the woman tended the home fires and the man slayed dragons. The first half of that was perfectly reasonable to me when we had kids at home, and we were home schooling. She did an awesome job teaching them, both got full scholarships to university based on their SAT scores. Once they left (each at age 17) i queried if she'd like to go to school, start a business, whatever. we had discussions where i tried to explain that i'd been working full time jobs since i was 16 and wanted to be able to have more choices myself. i was in executive management and was also running a business flipping houses on the side. i worked to get to a place where i'd be able to go to school, but couldn't do it alone.
When i got beyond my religious beliefs and accepted being gay, she asked for a divorce. The kicker is, she got everything, which was close to a 1m dollar estate. It represented a lifetime of work for me. It was either that, or pay alimony to her the rest of her life. The courts don't want to have to support a person, so the burden fell to me. She admitted to me that it wasn't fair, but she was used to being taken care of and was afraid to be on her own. i even held off on getting officially divorced for 15 months so i could provide her with health insurance that cost me 1150 a month. The courts reasoned since i was making money as an executive, i'd always be able to, and she with no experience would not be able to maintain the life she was accustomed to. Two years after we parted, i lost my executive job during the economic downturn of 2008-10. i had never gotten a degree because i was supporting a family and had just managed to work my way up the ladder. The type of job i did required a masters degree in business to replace. i applied to over 150 companies, and contrary to her and the courts reasoning, i was not able to get another similar job. McDonalds wouldn't even hire me as a manager lol. i ended up going to schoo, totally starting over at age 54 and getting a BSN, wracking up 80k in school loans at the same time. i'm fine and no one has ever taken care of me, not during that process, before or after. i don't expect it, even though it has been hard as hell. It's never occurred to me to expect or ask someone to provide for me, and i have the Disney channel at $7 a month for entertainment.

It's really weird, i loved and love this person, it just didn't work me being gay and lost my religion, she was straight and very religious. She still, probably, to this day thinks it's the mans place to provide, so i think that's partly how she rationalized taking everything. And even when i was providing everything, i didn't so much mind that as the expectation that it was somehow my job or duty to do it. To me, that hurt almost as much as the actual doing.

i find myself in a similar position to yours. i'd love to have a person in bed next to me, someone to eat and talk with, to share trips with, to know and be known by, i cannot imagine ever doing to someone what was done to me. As much as i'd love to have someone in my life, i don't want to have a paid 'lover,' and honestly, that's what it feels like with some people. Their love only lasts as long as i'm providing? i'd rather be alone, the first time almost destroyed me.

House Talion​(dom male) • Aug 15, 2020

If you're in a relationship with someone that's not living with you, having sole responsibility for such tasks is understandable. If they live with you it's not unreasonable for their Dominance to ensure the full burden of such tasks fall only on your shoulders, but it's also not ethically or morally sound. That of course is solely based on their personality. Some subs want such an environment while others find it too taxing and inevitably ruins the relationship. Even though she submits to me, my wife and I share all house hold responsibilities. Regaurdless of the breadwinner.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Aug 16, 2020

Hang on. You're saying it's not unreasonable on the left but them say it's not moral on the right.

Isn't that a contradiction?

Sasa​(dom female) • Aug 16, 2020

I don't understand the problem. I've always earned more, so why shouldn't I split it or pay. There was also a time between my projects my lover had more. If money is a topic you solve it together or alone. But more importantly, if you feel you're used, think you don't get enough for what you "invest", nobody can help you and your relationship. It is none, you already left.