Sadistic Disciplinarian

Sadistic Disciplinarian

Sololoquy • Oct 21, 2023

I'm starting to unpick some of the differences between the 6 initialisms top and bottom side of the slash and my understanding is that a sadist and a disciplinarian differ in their motives, i.e. spanking to inflict pain versus spanking as punishment.

For those of you who are either sadists or disciplinarians or both, can you tell me more about your perspective and how it changes the dynamic with your sub?

If you're a sadist, do you care if your sub obeys? Do you punish them if they don't? Is inflicting pain a reward or a punishment or neither, just something you do regardless of your sub's behaviour?

If you're both, how do you balance the two?

aPeepingMom​(sub female) • Oct 21, 2023

I know you posed the questions to those who give, but I’d like to share my perspective as a receiver.

I’ll use receiving a spanking as the example.

- Sadist spanking: It may hurt and be incredibly painful on my body. I may scream and cry. But I will love it. I will accept it willingly and will be aroused by the pain.

- Punishment spanking: It will hurt and be incredibly painful on both my body and my mind. I may scream, but I will absolutely cry. I will hate every second. I will accept it willingly because I earned it, but I will be devastated by disappointing him enough that he felt the punishment was necessary. I will not be aroused by the spanking itself, although perhaps the knowledge that he cares enough for me to make me a better person through the punishment I am receiving.

In essence, the feelings and arousal I receive from this pain will change based on the motives behind them. I would be surprised if those giving the pain don’t also feel differently based on the “why” behind their actions.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Oct 21, 2023

Thank you for sharing your perspective. For what it's worth, i think both sides are germane to the discussion.

i think it's a complex, individually varied topic. i don't have an ounce of physical masochist (or sadist) in me. i qualify "physical" because i do get aroused by what i perceive as "affectionate degradation/humiliation." my only cross over would be a hand spanking, but not given to cause pain or discipline, but given to mark me with His red hand print. i imagine it with petting, soothing, stroking in between because the point is neither pain or discipline, but Him putting His signature on me.

Sololoquy • Oct 21, 2023

Thank you for sharing your perspective - this is really helpful and I probably should make it clearer that both sides are very welcome.

So, how do you know each time whether it's a sadistic spanking or a punishment spanking? I mean, is it simply made explicit in the scene what the motivation is?

I ask because I'm solo and I have both going on at the same time, so it's not quite like I need to make the distinction more explicit to myself if I'm enjoying it but I do really want to be able to tease them apart and see the difference.

I'm guessing if you know your partner really well, explicit may just mean a tone or gesture or wording, not an actual declaration of "I'm punishing you now". Would that be correct?

On the receiving end, I feel like I see the difference more clearly than the giving though, but that's because the activity would be different. A spanking doesn't work as a punishment for me, for example, because I enjoy it. Whether it was intended as sadism or punishment, I'm going to want more of it.

Sololoquy • Oct 21, 2023

I can't seem to edit my original post to add this but I agree, perspectives from both sides are helpful and welcome.

Similar to you, I generally lean more towards degradation although I do have a fairly limited physically masochistic side. Mostly spanking, slapping, hair pulling, nipple clamps. I really like the idea of being marked as well, but since that tends to go with more pain, I'm more limited there too.

I think because of my unwillingness to do anything more physically sadistic/masochistic - despite a willingness to be able to - I do more with degradation as emotional sadism/masochism rather than discipline.

I feel like my motives are blurred though. If I'm being strictly disciplinarian, I will be completely fair and view any pain from punishment as corrective, a deterrant. If I'm being sadistic, the pleasure is in inflicting the pain. But if the sub is both being punished and masochistic, then being punished in a way that is also sadistic seems to be more like the dom is taking enjoyment out of being a harsh punisher, doling out punishment for correction but also for pleasure.

Does this happen a lot? Having mixed motives? Does it matter if both parties are into discipline and sadomasochism? I feel like it would maybe more of an issue if one party was only into one or the other but not both.

aPeepingMom​(sub female) • Oct 21, 2023

For me, clear communication is critical so that I understand the “why”. Forget spanking, it could be anything.

Taking edging, for example. It’s not something I particularly enjoy, but my Sir loves when I do. Early on in our relationship, I felt like I was being punished because I wasn’t allowed to orgasm. I’d ask him “what did I do wrong?” and he’d say something like “Absolutely nothing, you’re a very good girl. But it pleases me to see you suffer for me.”

So if you’re in solo play, you could try saying the “why” out loud (using edging as the example):

- Pleasure purposes: I will edge {#} times today because it pleases {myself/my Dom} to edge myself.
- Training purposes: I will edge myself {#} times today because learning how to control my orgasms for {myself/my Dom} will allow me to focus on their pleasure and not mine.
- Punishment: I will edge # times today because I failed {myself/my Dom in this specific way} and do not deserve to experience the release of my orgasm.

The physic act of giving is the same. The physical act of receiving is the same. But the WHY may change how you experience the act (both giving and receiving.)

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Oct 21, 2023

i subscribe to the spectrum theory of human sexuality, and for me, it's a broad, inclusive spectrum, and i see it as linear and multidimensional, just to complicate things. So i see mixed motives as an individual phenomenon, not a group thing. To me, 'switch' and 'versatile' people are somewhere in the middle. Some i have encountered need both, others can choose. The ones that need both, in my experience, will sooner or later want me to 'top' or 'switch' i happen to be at the far end of the spectrum and usually won't even try to be more than friends with someone in the middle, unless they can choose and are happy with being "Top, Dom, etc.," with me.

i find if a person doesn't know their self well, or is not being honest, that's when the 'issues' come in for us because they may want or need me to 'switch' i cannot be what they want/need. And even then, it's not necessarily that simple. Some are still discovering and they may realize through experience that they want something different than they thought. And people are also fluid, though i think a more experienced person tends to be more stable in knowing their needs/wants. To me, the person in the middle of the spectrum who needs/want just happen, and they find they cannot choose when, where and how, makes for the most challenge.

That's why i tend to seek out "Total Tops" (for instance) because they identify at the opposite end of the spectrum from me and i find there are more places we are likely to connect and be compatible.

To your specific question, i'd ask the person i was interested in the same questions you are asking because i think it's mostly an individual answer. i think the important part is you are aware and know what to ask so you can know with that person in that dynamic.

From my perspective "motives" get "mixed" for a lot of different reasons whether it's discipline and sadomasochism, or ____________ and ____________.

Sololoquy • Oct 21, 2023

That makes a lot of sense, and I absolutely agree clear communication is vital. I've never done kink with anyone else and if I did, I would feel that my mixed or changing motives wasn't OK and that I would need to be clear with myself and them what I was intending.

However, I'm very much in explorational territory with myself here and it probably isn't so accurate to say my motives are blurred or unclear, but rather mixed or variable. I could intend to punish myself for disobeying a rule not to orgasm by spanking, but then upon finding it painful and enjoyable, that kicks me into more of a sadomasochistic motive, and because I'm both giver and receiver, that shift has been immediately communicated and consented to.

I've only been experimenting for two weeks so far and this past week has had me try and see what I find pleasurable, painful or both because punishments were getting muddied. Maybe it's a personal difference but I don't think it's all about motive for me, although that is a key part. Having something I love done to me as punishment is going to make it feel less sweet when tarnished with disappointment but I'm also going to still want it anyway, especially as it brings degradation into it.

Has it always felt clear to you the way you've laid it out? Or did it seem quite complicated when you started out as well?

Sololoquy • Oct 21, 2023

I can see where you're coming from with switches being trickier unless it's clear where they're going to sit in relation to the other. Being versatile mid-play is probably not helpful unless with a fellow switch who can and wants to adapt to that fluidity.

I definitely agree that all of this is on some sort of spectrum and people will no doubt individually land on some less clear-cut parts of it.

I also agree it's important to know yourself very well. That is one of my guiding principles in life and I make time to reflect regularly, plus have an interest in psychology and philosophy. I am in a place in my life where I do know myself very well but have had some sexual hang-ups to contend with. I know most of what's going on with that but now I'm exploring my sexuality again, some of it's new and I'm older now too so there's a lot for me to learn and experence afresh.

As for asking the other person, that's a little tricky because the other person is me. I am a switch, a rope bunny, a disciplinarian, a dom, a sub, a sadist, a masochist, a degrader, a degradee, and a brat. Trying to clarify all of those different aspects from both sides of the slash simultaneously gives me a hell of a lot to unpick. It's a work in progress, and I welcome any suggestions to help see things from a different angle.

I mostly do a lot of writing at the moment to help keep track of everything so I can look back over it and adapt my dynamic with myself as I learn.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Oct 21, 2023

When you say "...the other person is me," i do not know if you are explaining feeling/needing/wanting both sides of this or literally that you are only expressing these things with your self? i think i remember you writing in another thread that you are doing 'this' "solo" at this juncture?

For me, the intimacies we discuss on this site are areas i want to connect with a Man. i see them as parts of me, independently, but i want to experience them in connection with another. An example at a base level: i'm an electron looking for a proton where we both naturally attract and bond and make a compound. You read like a neutron to me lol.
In my experience, opposites in a sexual or BDSM, get a need/want nurtured in relationship/dynamic with a 'chemistry' match. To me, people like your self, who go either way, can be "tricky," especially if you cannot chose which side your need/desire is at any given time. It's what i was describing earlier in my experience with versatile guys. i will connect on an intimate level with versatile guys who know they can choose Top or bottom and are happy and fulfilled choosing that. i will not attempt to be more than friends with a versatile guy who cannot choose, who may at some point need/want me to be something i cannot be. To me, a vital part of the connection/s i seek with an intimate are symbiotic meeting of each others need/desires. I'd rather go without than have that one sided or fail to nurture or fulfill my intimates need/desire.
i cannot relate to doing this solo. i think you've maybe read elsewhere that i have a drawer full of toys for penetrating or using me as a bottom, sub... but i never use them on myself because it feels fake. The energy, need, desire is not there to 'top' or 'dom,' even myself. So, i cannot do this solo, i just go without when a lack another Who wants/needs me as i do Him.