I'm curious so don't take this wrong

I'm curious so don't take this wrong

Meja • Dec 21, 2018

As new I'm very curious so please don't take this wrong way, I just wonder.
I read the talk about subdrop and top drop and come to think about that that's energy, you loose energy that you slowly regain. Under the play you create the energy, that you both share. One way and another. I've heard people talking about being addicted to the high in bdsm, and the adrenaline.
Is this what bdsm is, a energy high, adrenaline rush? Isn't that to be addicted, in the mind? But, now I'm thinking here, you can get the same high from other activities as well. Drugs, driving fast, etc. If it leaves the same high, which it must do, is bdsm just created in the high, just a high? Created in the brain? That you could get everywhere?
Then is it real? Except for the experience that it is.
And yes the same high, created from submit or top.
What makes bdsm stand out from the rest of the adrenaline activities, then the actual bonding maybe and the actual experience it's as real? But how real?
I'm not criticising or anything after all I'm having the same feelings like you about bdsm. I just wonder, as I'm new and curious, and very interested in the mind and the spiritual. But if same adrenaline, are we really not able to get it anywhere? Then what's the difference? I'm just asking because I'm curious. To me there are no wrong questions even though I'm sure some would see it as blasphemy but I'm not afraid to question, that's how things progress.

Bunnie • Dec 21, 2018

@ Meja, interesting question.
I would say that the play aspect of it is definitely based a lot on physiological responses. A recent discussion with a friend of mine that I found very interesting, was around masochism. She was explaining an article that she’d read suggesting that the physiological “benefits” a masochist gets from pain help to counteract the adrenaline already in their system. So the article was suggesting that a masochist, under everyday conditions, may potentially have a higher amount of adrenaline in their system than your average person. What pain does, is release endorphins, which helps to counteract adrenaline. So, according to the article, pain helps to rebalance a masochists system, bringing them back to a feeling of “normal.” I found this to be a very fascinating concept, and to me it makes a lot of sense. On the other side of the coin would be those who aren’t masochistic, who would be actively seeking that rush of adrenaline.
As for the D/s aspect of bdsm, I’m not sure. I’ve never really considered whether or not it would be the same elements from that perspective. Speaking from my own experiences, it doesn’t feel like submitting from an emotional or mental perspective gives me an adrenaline rush. That aspect seems to nourish me on a much deeper level than the physical.

MasterBear​(other butch) • Dec 21, 2018

You are right in a lot of this.

But it's not just adrenaline. There are hormone dumps as well such as serotonin.

And no.

This isnt something you can get anywhere- otherwise why look for partner? Why not just spank yourself?


When the body is stressed-- which is what bdsm does--- it can do amazing things. Add a sexual element (not necessarily sex- but feelings of arousal) and the combination is a chemical hurricane.



Think of it like this: does driving fast give you the same hi as orgasm?

The chemical response in the brain of pleasure is similar- but the end result is much different.


You ask- can we get this fulfillment in other ways that would feel the same.

My answer is no.

How we are each fulfilled is so different.
For me, the fulfillment isnt just chemical its emotional, psychological, physiological.


AND

Play and sex with my love fulfills me differently them play with men.


I equate BDSM to sexuality alot.

If you are straight and you are having sex with the same sex it isnt the same.

So this concept of can we get the same fulfillment that we get from BDSM by doing something else is the same thing.


No.

The actions and end results arent equatable.

MasterBear​(other butch) • Dec 21, 2018

In essence, the sum is not the total of the parts.


What makes Bdsm stand out for me is that it includes all of me.

Everything from my brain to my crotch. It is in essence --- all of me.

And there is nothing else in my life that makes room for that.

That allows me to be in my most simple yet complex form.


I really liked the questions.


I cannot achieve the type of fulfillment that I get from bdsm by doing other things.

I think what I'm trying to say here us that we know so little about the human brain.
For one non consensual rape on a stranger fulfills them.
For another consensual rough sex fulfills them and they would never rape another.


Actions that create fulfillment are so vastly different in each person, and moreover change in an individual over time.

Brain chemistry, age, nature vs nurture, time, society, internalized emotion, experience--- all of these things come into play here.


Not to mention that what fulfills me in BDSM would most likely bore others.


I hope this is making sense and on not just rambling.

Love the topic

Meja • Dec 22, 2018

Thank you for your great comments, and for understanding, for sure all things are experience. So, the masochist seeks relief from the added adrenaline. And the sub seeks the added adrenaline. Yes I can see that, that it gives an added adrenaline rush, just thinking of spanking for example for some. I can see that it's much harder to come by, when sex not added in. For some. To be fair. Now it gets interesting. I'm a spiritual person, who believes everything is energy. Well, that's not a hard one, physics and all. I see in front of me a imaginary person, sitting down with a tool to measure frequency. Let's say this person's bdsm activity is measured correctly. I'm very interested what would happen if other activities were added that hit the mark, or even higher. What would happen? I'm surprised Noones done this or have they?
I'm just interested what happens.
For sure you can get a rush from control, or submit, but I see that more as psychological. But yes still curious though.

And physiological responses, can you get similar responses elsewhere?
And we've all heard about how you can get hormones and serotonin from different sources. What would happen with bdsm, if we did? Im curious.

The body's stress kinda a precursor for bdsm? What happens if you managed to not stress yourself? Your body? Would you still do it, or would it change. Again I'm surprised Noone among the establishment researched this as it gives should give very interesting results about the mind, and bdsm.
So, when it's everything, what would happen if some elements got changed or fulfilled in other ways.
I guess I have a scientist in me.

MasterBear​(other butch) • Dec 22, 2018

Theis based on the Assumption of a couple of things.

The first is is that we wouldn't want to participate in BDSM if we could get our high in other ways


There is the very simple it makes me happy which can be just as complex as anything else


Also how a body register stress isn't exactly how we register stress. So anything that includes movement can be considered a stressor to the body. Anything that includes an emotional response can be considered a stressor to the body. Any type of physical impact can be considered a stressor to the body. So when you take all of those things and you combine them it creates a different type of stressor. The stressor can then turn around and create an endorphin or internal i Rush a dump of Serotonin or a dump of hormones.



So let's say, that I could do something else that would create the same physiological response in my body. The question is would I want to?


Or, is what BDSM brings to me so incredibly significant that BDSM is the primary way that I want to experience this?

My answer is I don't really care if there are other things that would bring me this kind of fulfillment. The experiences that I have in BDSM that are flutter from my growth enjoy and path work for me



And I quite frankly wouldn't have it any other way.


Also keep in mind that the rush isn't just psychological and isn't just physical. It is more than the sum of its parts.

For me BDSM permeates every part of my life. On an everyday basis. Whether I am organizing event or putting clothes pins on my love nipples for me the Fulfillment and the high are constant.




I think that for a lot of people BDSM does equate to other things otherwise everybody would be doing it. There are lots of people that have a deep fulfillment to their lives and they are single and Hermits and have minimal interaction with other people. But they are deeply deeply fulfilled.


And who knows given a different paths I might have absolutely ended up there. Just me the horses in the dogs and some BFE place in the middle of nowhere.



But nothing fulfills all of my centers, like BDSM. My psychological center of my physical Center my emotional Center my sexual Center.

Meja • Dec 22, 2018

Before I start I loved reading about your experiences at the contest you reminded me of someone I once loved dearly, the bravery and excitement and that daredevilish so much to admire =) I can see why =). You put some insight into what I've always wondered.
This however I write from a curious, scientific thinking.
I like to ponder, test things.
Think extreme. And abstract.
It's not to say oh one has to do or be differently. =)
There's always a exploring questioning part in me. I'm not just content with this is how it is. I like to cross all boundaries.
Pretty much like star trek.
I was thinking, regarding the stress, if you keep the mind and body in a state of meditation..
I have a desire to know why, at the deep core. I'm real, raw, that's why.
I'm not saying things change or should change, just because you get answers. Lol no you get more to use, to work with. Like Newton.
So no, I did not say, "don't participate in bdsm if you can get stimulation elsewhere". That, is an assumption. I'm a explorer. A scientist.

Freya369 • Dec 22, 2018

This is a massive subject and I am so glad it has been brought up. Many, many people in Vanilla World...would rather run a mile than discuss sexual activity, no matter how delicate one tries to have such a discussion.

Here's my 10 cents, and right now that's all about its worth! I have been thinking the same thoughts as the original questioner; and doing some research of my own. Wilhelm Reich is worth your time in reading, particularly the Function of the Orgasm. Is it an easy read? No, but for the most part with a little effort, I am thinking most people here will see what he is trying to say. Long since dead, 1958 ish, Freud was his mentor and colleague, subsequently Reich had a radical split with him. I will not spoil it for anyone and do a Readers Digest version here, but will say, I believe he was at least 100 ahead of his time, controversial, thought provoking and to some here and elsewhere highly disturbing.

Radical thinking about what the orgasm is meant to do to us and more importantly what it does to us when we don't get satisfied the way it was designed to do so.

To my mind, I don't think there is any doubt that BDSM is addictive, let's face it, trying to find a suitable partner in this realm, is like searching for Elvis in Wisconsin! The neural pathways once they have experienced high potency pleasure, even within a rather oxymoron domain...! wants to repeat and repeat just like a good lab rat. An additional question would be, "but not everyone is into BDSM are they? No they are not, but you only have to look into "normal world" and see their manifest addictions to see reading Reich gives a clearer picture of what's really going on. Amazon has the book, be warned its upsetting, and the truth...IMHO. Freya

Meja • Dec 22, 2018

I've never been afraid to be controversial, contrary, or otherwise new thinking etc as we would have been in stone age if someone didn't.
You don't die just because. After all, it's a personal choice which way you want. So, you don't die, just because someone challenged.
After all, sex is what everyone do at some point at least. Where I'm from were quite Liberal, and can discuss sex etc like a normal nature thing. Nothing to be ashamed of. I guess I'm fortunate.
Yes I've heard slightly of reich, the magnetism thing. Good point.
I love psychology, but I find it too limiting I take it into the spiritual.
I've always appreciated a open mind.
After all that's what we're here for, to learn.
But, as spiritual, I don't believe that sex is what drives us. I believe the creative force from creator source is what drives life. Not sex. That's second.
So, creativity.
I have lived in my life several years with no sex at all. I didn't suffer one bit. What happened I got immense creativity and spiritual skills and knowledge.
And no I do now lol
But I proved I'm not addicted too. And I like being detached. Yes I've tried some bdsm. Not much. I can relate to the addiction. I didn't though. And I definitely wouldn't enjoyed being addicted. I would have quickly realised that it's just an addiction, and that would have completely taken the fun. Like, I'm addicted, and this is just that. Big question mark for me. Then going on like I want it to be real, without the addiction. It can only be real then. So no. As I know any addiction in my life (read clothes) isn't "fun". It's not real.
But, I'm not judging.
I was thinking the other day if bdsm could be because the brains wired differently?
I noticed last time I have sex that I like spanking because it stimulates the nerves in the but. That it stimulates the nerves to the actual vagina that doesn't get stimulated by normal sex. I've never had much feeling. But when the flesh, the balls are touched or torn apart I feel more. Still not optimal of course. (then the actual being controlled is not taken into account) but that made me think of if we actually have our brains wired different or bodies.

Meja • Dec 22, 2018

Well, orgasms through tantra is a fucker too..