Good and Bad Punishment?

Good and Bad Punishment?

Global Goddess​(sadist female) • Jun 21, 2020

Hello! This is my first post about anything like this so thanks in advance for your patience. I'm feeling a little confused and I have a genuine question about punishment. I feel like there's a good type of "punishment" like, if a person likes to be spanked and therefore they might be a brat on purpose so that they're "punished". But, then I also think there's like... REAL punishment. Like, if my sub is supposed to call me and is 3 hours late for no good reason. To me, that isn't like "Ok! Now I'm going to give you the 'punishment' that you love!" Because I'm genuinely pissed off. I want to make him do the dishes all night or something genuinely not enjoyable.

The reason that I'm confused, is that I feel as though a true sub would totally get that there are two kinds of punishment and want to do their best to please their Mistress, but I found with this last guy that if he disrespected me, but the punishment wasn't something fun for him, he started to lose interest. This makes me feel like in the end, he didn't really want a Dominant woman, he just wanted the fantasy of one. Is it common for sub men to not want real punishment if they break the agreements or disrespect their Domme? Would you consider that to be and Insta sub, or just preference? What is your experience?

Thanks for your opinions everyone! I'm really loving reading all of the posts and getting everyone's input on these discussions.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Jun 21, 2020

i have a sub nature, but punishment does not elicit my sub nature at all.

i think of my kinks as places where a Dom can 'collar' me, and for me, the psychology behind a "collars" is much more meaningful than wearing a literal collar (again, i am qualifying "for me"). i think we are complex, all wired differently, i think the biggest challenge of D/s dynamic is finding a compatible partner, the Yang to my yin, the positive charge to my negative charge, i.e., the 'opposite' where we will naturally attract and bond. i don't think anyone is 100% compatible, so finding enough strong kinks (read: "needs/desires") where we attract, bond, have symbiosis, is vital to a sustainable relationship, D/s dynamic. Again, this is just how i see it, i don't make rules for anyone else, my own life is enough lol.

For me, power, control, submission are parts of the D/s dynamic, but punishment does not have the power to elicit submission and control me. There are things that do, but not punishment.

Sorry, that may seem like a rabbit trail, but i don't think that we become our selves conforming to some D/s rule book. i think we are reflected in, and live in, relationship to others- and presumably more so with a 'significant other.'

It seems to me that "punishment" is not a compatible kink between you and your sub.

and, none of this may fit for you.. but it's input from one sub.

House Talion​(dom male) • Jun 21, 2020

If its enjoyed its not a punishment. If it's a learning experience it's not a punishment. If it helps your sub to become closer to you, it's not a punishment.

MissBonnie​(dom female){oz} • Jun 21, 2020

House Talion said it well ...there are punishments and funishments as I cal them.

If you have a maso submissive, punishment needs to be non pain based IMO. I find making sure the punishment fits the crime, helps a lot. Try use a kink list to start a conversation on what doesn't rock their world. The lists are good to spark conversation or maybe be reminded of action/activity that you both may of over looked. For Eg my main maso has skin like a rhino, I struggle to "hurt" him in away that isnt pleasure. I could remove his hide and he wouldn't bat an eye, in fact I'd get the look of "bring it" but touch his nipples and he will safe word! Awww the poor baby does have a weakness! Some times it more the type of pain too, stringy over thuddy, sharp and short over long and controlled etc.

For most, maso: Its a waste of time tying to break habits of bad behaviour with pain, if pain is enjoyed to much. The same is often true with Brats, you will end up creating a TFTB situation for yourself , that will lead a to vicious circle of becoming a kink dispenser rather than getting any form of power exchange. However if you;re happy, just making him happy, then run with it!!! use it to your advantage. Topping is often used like a dirty word but if it rocks your world, then its a good thing.

If you have a play partner that is more towards chasing the sensations of play an nothing else and its not what your looking for then you maybe need to move on. Its sad but you run into this "Do me" type more often than not in the Femdom world. Nothing wrong with a little kinky play if that your thing but if it isn't and your chasing submission, it is annoying and best stopped quickly. In my experience the behaviour never improves regardless on the methods used....I've seen so many new Domme burn themselves out trying create a submissive of merit out of a sensation junkie (or trying stop TFTB or pain punish a maso)

With "submissive" there are also several varieties and it pays to remember this. I wont enter into what makes each as we all have varying needs wants and desires, plus its not my place to say what is and isn't "treeeew" submission. What it does pay to keep in mind while looking for a "submisive" is there are those that just want to be serviced and others that want to be of service. Some subs want a "Domme" others want a "Do me". It pays to figure out what the "sub" offers before you waste to much time (your and theirs) with the wrong type for YOU.

Global Goddess​(sadist female) • Jun 23, 2020

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses! This helps a lot. I really appreciate you taking the time

LordofPain56 • Jun 23, 2020

I have a rule in my rulebook that says: "thou shall not commit an offense against the rules just to get a punishment". It goes on further to say: "you will very likely get plenty of attention during adult playtime, therefore it is forbidden to break the rules on purpose".
So...that second part is like what some people call "Funishments".
Here, though, you would not want to break the rules for any reason. I have some mean whips.

I am genuinely confused..... help me understand please.

rottenbrat​(sub female){Skyrich} • Jun 23, 2020

@House Talion,
I am sincerely intrigued by your statements made. The enjoyment part I get. That's pretty self explanatory and more along the lines of what I have heard from others along with Miss Bonnie refer to as "funishment", but the other two statements completely baffle me.


"If it's a learning experience it's not a punishment."
I ascribe to the line of thought that says if you aren't dead, you are learning. In my view, every interaction is a learning experience even if it's a repeat because no two events will be exactly the same whether it's a punishment or not. If a punishment isn't meant to teach where the boundary lines are, then I would suggest that it's not a punishment but a needed release on the part of the dom(me). How does being a learning experience preclude something from being a punnishment?


"If it helps your sub to become closer to you, it's not a punishment."
Probably because I see everything as a learning experience, and think of punishment as something that is meant to correct/educate/derive a different response I am also confused with this one. My Master expects that I will listen and obey because I trust him. If I step out of line I receive correction appropriately measured against the infraction, but it is always meant to teach me to trust him and let him lead. Even if it was unintended (and with MY master, I don't believe it is), the side-effect of this ends up being that I grow closer to him with each event.
So, what am I missing here?

NCarraway​(dom male) • Jun 23, 2020

I don't have any answers but I do have some observations:

As background I should say that I work generally from the positive reinforcement hymn book. I don't shy away from punishment but I do consider that I have slipped up a little if I have to resort to excessive punishment. For me I also have the opinion that if I have to continually punish a submissive, then I am not in a relationship that I want to be in.

My observations are that I can make it clear to my partner (without the need to explicitly explain it out) whether they are getting a spanking because (a) they have misbehaved and I am disappointed, or (b) because I need to do it for my own gratification. I find that the physical elements of the two are near identical and have the same physical response (wetness, submissivess, a needing to feel close and be back under control) but irrespective of the physical response they do not enjoy (a) and they appear to let themselves enjoy (b). I find it relatively easy to make it clear which case it is for my partner by use of the atmosphere. For example for (a) I first give them a lecture for why I am disappointed, then apply the spanking, then after the spanking has started I resume lecturing until the spanking ends. My tone and demeanor during this experience means that they are thoroughly disappointed with themselves in disappointing me (honestly I am a nice chap but they get the message). All this means that the spanking is exactly as it would be in the case of (b) but there are two things going on for (a), simultaneously:

. that they are physically aroused by the spanking
. that they are disappointed in themselves in letting me down

I have found partners become very aroused during this process despite the fact that they are being made to feel disappointed ... Something along the lines of them admitting to me some time after the punishment that ... being brought back into line was 'hot as fuck'. Its reinforcing the control aspect and simultaneously reminding them the sexual arousal they find in that control. As I analyse it now, I think the key thing for me is to maintain the lecturing during the spanking. I have also had situations where sexual situations have developed as part of this punishment (come on command, oral worshipping of me, fucking etc) and that does not appear to detract from the 'lesson teaching' efficacy, as long as the lecturing continues.

I also make a big point of saying when the punishment is over and don't revisit the infraction after. I think that is important.

Two other points on this subject that may/may not be relevant:

1. I promised myself many moons ago that I would only do things that reinforced the dynamic. If a punishment reinforced the dynamic then that was the right choice. If a punishment degraded the dynamic then I would not do it - I would find another way to resolve the issue.
2. I have found more useful punishments as my hypnosis skills have improved. With a partner with excellent rapport I can take away the experience of an orgasm (or period of orgasms). I imagine that no-one likes that thought, of knowing that you had an orgasm, but knowing that the good feelings have been taken from you for bad behaviour.

I'd be really interested if anyone has opinions on my (a) and (b). I realise that it is not conventional wisdom. Conventional wisdom I think is that the two should be physically different and that arousal and gratification are to be avoided. Interested to hear views.

John Brownstone​(dom male) • Jun 23, 2020

I am coming form a male Dom/ female sub perspective but I think it can be translated.

My girl is submisive to me and she is a masochist. She does love pain and impact is both our favorite kink.
That being said a barehanded spanking, paddling, or even a flogging is not much of a punishment for her, she enjoys those WAY to much.

Now, I will say that her being a submissive there are times she steps out of bounds or forgets a task and all I have to do is say these words; "you've disappointed me girl." and hearing that can be the worst punishment she could get. Being the submissive mindset is to serve and please failing and knowing they have disappointed can be tough on them and can be way more effective and any "spanking"

Now while there are those implements she likes there are also those she doesn't like; ie, crops and canes. Those can and have been used for effective punishment as they don't give the kind of pain she likes. So even though she likes pain form those types of implements she does note.
Corner time is also an effective punishment and works very well with her.
Taking away social media like FaceBook or Twitter works as a good punishment when needed.

On the other side of that coin positive reinforcement works extremely well with her for achieving and pushing goals. Knowing there is a special treat at the end of the week for maintaining her water or eating habits works much better then punishment.

Each person is different and they respond to things differently, most times it is finding out what works best for that person.

punishment

KinkySwitch • Jul 7, 2020

the best punishment for a sub is actually to jzt be ignored by his mistress.