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Opening Up

TalentedOptimist​(dom male){open}
3 years ago • Jan 20, 2021

Opening Up

Full respect for people who say poly is not for them.

What core tenets of poly lifestyles do you think are unacceptable and why?
After reading through poly posts and how most of us are treated at surface level. Just wanted to say, we are not disgusting, deserving of being called a prison rape victim (fuckboy), insulted, or used as a flagship reason why relationships don’t work. Nor is poly to be used as a fog of misunderstandings for people to do the shitty shit they were going to do anyway.

What is the issue? Why the animosity? The stubbornness? The anger and insults? With few exceptions, I respect those I’m not compatible with. It’s just things reached this point.

I take in stride. I’m fulfilled with my partners and life. Most people who practice monogamy aren’t. I feel like that + stress is spilling out into peoples knee jerk response to discredit, shame and destroy anything different.

That’s been the human history trend for fashion, equal rights, sexuality, and political views that lean toward peace + cohesion over profit + convenience.

In general
Who/what taught you to hate, reject, and disdain?
Who/what taught you the opposite? To lovingly share, connect and see people outside of your expectations and desires?
What new ideas have you brought out that got shot down?
Could you love another as much as yourself? Only one?

Let’s talk.
House Talion​(dom male)
3 years ago • Jan 20, 2021
House Talion​(dom male) • Jan 20, 2021
Unacceptable tenets of poly? Lack of concent. While that may be one thing to some it's something completely different to me. While consent is required for all relationships from both partners it's easy to see how its equally important between two primary partners prior to consideration for any seco dary partners, but as its given it NEEDS to be understood that it's just as hard to take back. Once consent for poly is given it can only be negated when both partners agree to its negation.
MisterAshmodai​(dom male)
3 years ago • Jan 20, 2021
MisterAshmodai​(dom male) • Jan 20, 2021
Actually, consent in poly requires agreement from all parties, so negating consent only requires one party to negate it. Then, negotiation and compromise begins.
The most important requirement for a functional poly relationship is that all members are emotionally and mentally adults and communicate and compromise as such. Consent is actually more effective in poly relationships than in monogamous relationships because it is checked through more than two channels and emotional manipulation is less prevalent.
MstrSol​(dom male)
3 years ago • Jan 21, 2021
MstrSol​(dom male) • Jan 21, 2021
The problem is usually related to honesty and people's biased perception of poly as being inherently dishonest. Given SSC BDSM is inherently based on honesty, I am assuming you make it clear to your partners beforehand about the nature and extent of your poly relationships and what you are doing to keep your partners safe from disease etc. In that case, don't worry about it. If they are not comfortable with poly, they are simply not compatible with you. Why do you care what they think?
MisterAshmodai​(dom male)
3 years ago • Jan 21, 2021
MisterAshmodai​(dom male) • Jan 21, 2021
It does get overwhelming on occasion that poly is one of the few areas where it is still perceived as acceptable to be adamant and even judgmental in your disagreement with it, without really having a sound argument for why you disagree with it. The best arguments I have heard against poly is that it is more work than a potential participant wants to put in, or that they do not trust their partner to put in the necessary work. Both of these are fully valid arguments, but more often than this, the arguments I find are either misconceptions, or are based in self esteem issues and fear of losing a partner, which really misses the whole point of poly. A post like this is less about confronting an individual for their preferences and more about stemming the flow of disinformation that makes it so difficult to make an educated decision about whether or not polyamory would work for someone. If someone is not poly, that is fine, but to own that as your preference as opposed to saying that it is due to some immorality or dysfunction makes a difference to both sides of the equation.
NoClvrNickname​(sub female)
3 years ago • Jan 21, 2021
I have no animosity or disgust or anything like that for poly; I just think it’s “not for me.” Plenty of people like pickles; I personally don’t. If you like pickles, more power to ya, hell you can even have mine is the server puts one on my plate! I just don’t want to eat one 🤷‍♀️ Your choices/preferences do me no harm. As long as everyone involved is happy, carry on...
    The most loved post in topic
tallslenderguy​(other male)
3 years ago • Jan 21, 2021
i don't know of any core tenants of poly that i'd deem unacceptable.

Apparently you've encountered someone/s who have, i have never experienced animosity like you describe.
When i first divorced (a woman), i thought i might be 'Bi' so i spent some time in poly community. Didn't take long to realize i'm gay, not Bi, but it made sense to me that some Bi people, just as an example, might fit into a poly setting (for obvious reasons).

To me, like everything else, it comes down to the individuals involved. i don't think any 'ism' should be conformed to, rather the 'ism' is just a way of communicating who and what we are... i.e., it serves us, we do not serve it. i do not see poly as 'good' or 'bad,' but good for some and bad for others. i think it's a mistake to impose our own standards and ideas as though they are universal.
LittleMissAdventure​(sub female)
3 years ago • Jan 21, 2021
As someone who has my reservations about poly, let me try my best to explain.
First, I want to be clear, I think that whatever people want to do between themselves is completely up to them and is fine and I support that. Though I've tried my best to try and understand what appeals to others about this lifestyle, I just don't personally get it. That said, I'm always open to hearing something I hadn't considered before.

With that said, here are the angles that my reservations are drawn from:

1. Logistical
On a very basic level, time is a finite resource. Depending on how you choose to practice your arrangement, that may create constraints on the amount of time with any which partner. While this can be manageable enough with fewer numbers, at a certain number, the ability any person has to connect and be fully present for any other person starts to break down. This is even true to an extent with non-romantic relationships. The older I get, the harder it is to maintain disparate friendships not because I stopped caring but just because there are only so many hour-long phone conversations and happy hours I can physically do in a week. For me personally, there's no way I could develop meaningful relationships with more than one person and still do my job, be an active participant in my family, maintain my long-standing friendships, and keep space for my personal health and growth.
From a legal aspect, while I think it makes sense to recognize polyamorous marriage through law, it - once again - starts to break down the more people you add to it. A child might be able to have 3 or 4 legal parents who share care of them, but 20? Definitely not. The original poster points out that communication and consent are a huge part of healthy poly relationships and sure! That's true. But that's true of every relationship and the law has to contemplate the total and complete breakdown of relationships in building the law as well as the most extreme of situations. Basically, what I'm saying, is that we can't hold up the ideal model of anything as the reasoning for it's existence and we have to consider how any situation can be used for the absolute worst possible ends and attempt to address them in structural ways.

2. Consent
So I read earlier that once again obviously communication is extremely important and consent can be withdrawn by any one party which is great! But even outside of kink and poly and just in everyday life, I've come to realize that consent is more complicated than we sometimes like to think. It's not that I think that poly people are running around actively pressuring people into relationship dynamics they don't want, it's that numbers are, again, a bit of an issue. If you tell one person that there's something they want to do that you don't in your relationship it feels like a simple enough exchange. Now if you're the one person who feels uncomfortable but 3 other people want to do something, it can feel a lot more difficult to say so even if your feelings remain the same. It can feel as though your discomfort and you by extension are the problem or the barrier to your partner(s)' fulfillment. You might say that that's a sign of a relationship that needs to have better communication or of self-esteem issues or something else, and that all may very well be true! The problem is that real people aren't perfect. They come with baggage and if the predicate for a successful healthy relationship is that they not have issues, then... I'm not sure that the relationship paradigm is itself a successful one. While compromise is important in any relationship, not everything can or should be compromised. The nature of having more partners is that one has to make more compromises then they might otherwise

Now, once again I want to re-iterate for anyone reading this, NONE OF THIS IS REASON TO JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE OR TO BE AN ASSHOLE. I'm sorry that people around you seem to spout hate, that's extremely uncool and those people suck.These are more the considerations that I have when thinking about my life, as well as what I might worry about if a friend were to ask me what I thought about them trying out a poly dynamic for themselves. And even with all of this, there are people that I know for whom it genuinely makes to me that poly is the only way their life will work. For others, it's the exact opposite. Heck, I'm not even 100% that absolute monogamy is a thing that makes sense for myself either. I suppose it's helpful to think of monogamy and poly like a spectrum and I think that either extreme is probably pretty unhealthy.

I hope that might be helpful in your understanding, and I hope it wasn't too disrespectful. I wanted to be honest so as to actually be useful, but I also don't mean to be inconsiderate. I also look forward to following this post and reading what others have to say. Hopefully, this will be a chance for me to learn too!

(Footnote/joke: I'm probably just salty because I can't even find one partner and there are people out there with like eight. WHAT?! No fair!)
TalentedOptimist​(dom male){open}
3 years ago • Jan 22, 2021

Reply

MstrSol wrote:
The problem is usually related to honesty and people's biased perception of poly as being inherently dishonest. Given SSC BDSM is inherently based on honesty, I am assuming you make it clear to your partners beforehand about the nature and extent of your poly relationships and what you are doing to keep your partners safe from disease, etc. In that case, don't worry about it. If they are not comfortable with poly, they are simply not compatible with you. Why do you care what they think?


1. Yes, I am honest with my partners. We get tested. We verify. I'll note its safer and more transparent than most "hook up and hope" type situations I see everywhere else.

2. My question is not centered on myself. "Why should I care what they think?"
It was very clear that these are my questions:

"What is the issue? Why the animosity? The stubbornness? The anger and insults? With few exceptions, I respect those I’m not compatible with. It’s just things reached this point. I take it in stride. I’m fulfilled with my partners and life. Most people who practice monogamy aren’t. I feel like that + stress is spilling out into peoples knee jerk response to discredit, shame, and destroy anything different."

I care what others think because I like to engage and communicate in this community. I recognize this need comes from my flaws, desires to connect/learn, and find the ones for me. Also, with the hopes of better representing and showing the benefits of the kinks and lifestyle choices that I like. For the many individuals and crowds that I can learn from or be happy with, there will be issues where a lack of information or misrepresentation can cause problems and conflicts.
Poly has a bad name right now in these streets, I'm recruiting in these streets. As cool and mature as it may seem to be standoffish or isolated, I prefer the opposite communication style.
TalentedOptimist​(dom male){open}
3 years ago • Jan 22, 2021

In Kind

LittleMissAdventure wrote:
As someone who has my reservations about poly, let me try my best to explain.
First, I want to be clear, I think that whatever people want to do between themselves is completely up to them and is fine and I support that. Though I've tried my best to try and understand what appeals to others about this lifestyle, I just don't personally get it. That said, I'm always open to hearing something I hadn't considered before.

+++Just answering in kind

1. Logistical
What if we get married (monogamously) and we get recruited into the cartel and have to use our skills for human trafficking and terrorism? This would put strain and trauma into the relationship, change the logistics of the relationship, and the government could toy with our legal access to funds and family. Because of that possibility, I do not want to get married. Using extreme examples to highlight hypothetical perspectives in a highly unlikely situation........is madness. Twenty parents? Come on, the viewpoint that poly is inherently overcrowded, messy, and complicated is bullshit. It's one thing to ask about how I've resolved conflicts in my poly lifestyle and experiences. Quite another for to build a funhouse of impossible factors and their legal consequences. For one, I don't want children in my household, just partners. Children are astronomically expensive, invite complications, and are a main dividing factor in monogamous relationships. Respectfully, that entire section of the convo doesn't apply to me. So I will not speculate. I will just hold to faith that any parent would hold take parenthood seriously enough to plan and communicate their needs and abilities to provide in the best way for their child.

On the point of overreaching with the connection. Being emotionally inept/inexperienced, or burning oneself out are unhealthy traits that people show in all relationship types. I do agree that overburdening relationships and connections are unhealthy. Poly is not an ever-expanding death cult of people endlessly recruiting partners with no regard for human depth and emotional capacity. Where is this even coming from?

" We can't hold up the ideal model of anything as the reasoning for its existence and we have to consider how any situation can be used for the absolute worst possible ends and attempt to address them in structural ways."

There is my ideal model and "the" ideal model. I chose the former. I will not hold unrealistic/misinformed expectations with a high rate of failure/debt/misery and use that as a looking glass to guesstimate how a new lifestyle would f*** me over. Building communication bridges, being fully open, connected, and supported with more than one partner seems so taxing because most people on here have never had that in a pure and consistent manner. Repeat my first sentence.
Your "logistical" point is mixing a collection of potential conflicts of twenty people, emotional burnout, and child custody...all of which, I'm not into. I am not trying to fit my poly lifestyle into the sinking ship of nightmares that is known as contract marriage. I have enough resources to provide for my house outside of conventional thinking. I apologize if you have been exposed to bad experiences with poly or learning about it, but damn....give me a break here.

2. Consent
"It can feel as though your discomfort and you by extension are the problems or the barrier to your partner(s)' fulfillment. You might say that that's a sign of a relationship that needs to have better communication or of self-esteem issues or something else and that all may very well be true! The problem is that real people aren't perfect. They come with baggage and if the predicate for a successful healthy relationship is that they not have issues, then... I'm not sure that the relationship paradigm is itself a successful one. While compromise is important in any relationship, not everything can or should be compromised. The nature of having more partners is that one has to make more compromises than one might otherwise."

Most of the issues you're listing I have rarely if ever come across in poly. You mentioned earlier that you don't understand poly on a personal level. It is not competitive, isolating, or ranked. From my perspective, your explanation is involving scenarios and factors from multiple types of poly relationships. Poly is not this confusing, bleak, isolated, and highly competitive environment of emotional devastation that you're describing. If that's what someone is feeling, you're not in a healthy relationship, you're being used. Please respect and separate those definitions and experiences.

Compromises. In work, school, and romance, most if not all people I've met struggle with compromising and admitting their wrong. back to this misconception of poly being this confusing fog-covered battleground of emotional booby traps.....that shit is false. You know women who have been tricked and messed over with poly? I know men who shot themselves in gas station bathrooms after their wife took the boat/house/kids while hubby was on deployment. The world sucks. but not everyone in it.
The first compromise (that I suggest) is to compromise your doubts, clearly speak your needs and what you plan to do if they arent met.

Flipping your perspective on its head, how about seeing multiple people trying different ways to connect with and support each other. That's the only poly I've known. Please ask about this side as much as you criticize the bad.

I respect that you're considerate and trying to be respectful. But that was borderline hurtful reading your post. I don't want to respond with anger or pessimism. There are just major loopholes and leaps in logic in what you're writing. I'm open to learning and discussing further if we can clear some of that up.

"(Footnote/joke: I'm probably just salty because I can't even find one partner and there are people out there with like eight. WHAT?! No fair!)
"

I apologize for your struggles, but....no, it's just not like that.