Communication: The KEY to our dynamics... But when does it become "Topping from the bottom"

Communication: The KEY to our dynamics... But when does it b

Morley​(sub female){Max Sterne} • Jan 29, 2022

I have been having this conversation with a few of my good friends lately, and thought it would be a good Forum discussion.

Context:

Personally I (and believe for most), think communication is one of the most important ingredients for a successful relationship/dynamic. I have heard and talked to many s types and bottoms explain how they "tell" their D type or Top what they need / want. This is good, right? Communication. Discussions in the beginning about wants/desires/limits etc.

For me, once We establish rules, protocols, scenes etc. I look to my D type for guidance, to LEAD me/Us, that's called power exchange. Now, if there is something I'm not comfortable with in the moment that we had agreed upon prior, then I SAFE WORD. That's what safe words are for, in my opinion, and should be used as such! And if I DO safe word, there is a long discussion on why I did etc. etc. I explain my feelings, what I was thinking and We discuss whether it (whatever it was) is to be put to my Hard limits or not. I TRUST in my D type to guide me, but to also listen to my concerns, knowing and trusting in the end, it will be my D type that will ultimately guide me to what's best for Me and Us! I don't "tell" Them.

So, when does "communication" become Topping from the bottom? I feel many, on either side of the slash, misinterpret the two.


What do you think?

Re: Communication: The KEY to our dynamics... But when does

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Jan 29, 2022

Snipped for focus:
What *I* personally consider to be topping from the bottom is trying to change the course of a scene that's already under way OR attempting to write a complete script for the scene prior to it commencing. I've never had a dominant, or even a play partner, express disapproval of me coming up with new ideas of my own that I have discovered I'd like to explore *after* our initial hard limits and negotiations have been established.

I've had some of my favorite ideas and fantasies pop up well after the initial negotiations in my relationships have occurred and would hate to have a partner hint that I am not allowed to have any further input as the road unwinds.

ButterfliesAndCuffs​(sub female) • Jan 29, 2022

I look at topping from the bottom as WW said - trying to direct the playtime or scene. I think it could also be adjusting tasks or rules to fit your wants. A good Dom should want to know what interests their submissive. New interests can come up long after a dynamic has been established.

alawey​(sub female){(OWNED BY } • Jan 29, 2022

BBS, we have talked on this subject many of times. I think that if the s type changes their scene completely by doing something. Or is pushing for the dynamic to change 100% . Always is about thier wants even when appearing to do as the D type wants or requests.

Although there are times I feel/think when things can come up where things may need to be changed. But it should be thought discussion s had earlier ( ohhh there is my next blog , thank you) . Or by the use of a SAFE WORD being used. Which while stopping the scene or whatever is going on. It SHOULD also lead to a conversation on why one used safe word the feeling / thoughts behind it .

Literate Lycan​(dom male) • Jan 30, 2022

Great discussion. I would take it a step further beyond scenes and include possibly impacting their dynamic. I've seen and heard of relationships where the submissive feels inclined to direct the relationship because of many reasons - could be the dominant isn't a Dominant but just kind of there . . . and I don't mean just sexually but they aren't standing to their responsibility. They key as you put it is definitely communication, but when the communication breaks down what happens.

There is a huge difference, as I believe is indicated in your post and above, between a submissive discussing an issue with the Dominant and the pair concurring on the direction they should go and the submissive influencing and changing the direction because they either don't agree or the dominant (note the small d) isn't actually doing their job and the submissive winds up being forced to take charge by directing (or topping from the bottom).

After my long wind, I would respond to your question by saying, "Communication becomes topping from the bottom in my opinion when the Dominant allows it to. Instead of performing their role in the dynamic as the Dominant, they leave a void for whatever reason, and the submissive fills it."

Notely • Jan 30, 2022

Indeed Yes but its two way street every relationship is different. Topping from the Bottom well I don't use the praise but some people do switch but a submissive still also has a mind is about agreeing with your partner on things just can't be about one you need to people to make as team work. Both people hold the key of being Us.

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Jan 30, 2022

Another factor to consider is that when the sub shares their "bright ideas" it gives the dominant ammunition to be used in the form of denial.

Me: I'd love to be dangled over a cliff while you flog me
Him: No fucking way, you psycho. I don't look good in stripes.

(Totally tongue in cheek here - but I hope y'all get my drift)

dollMaker​(dom male) • Jan 30, 2022

Honest frank communication is never topping from the bottom, though controlling types, abusers, will seek to hoodwink a newbie into thinking they have no right or ability to communicate their feelings and thoughts regarding activities they do, or the dynamic. These types of so called doms will use the, this is topping from the bottom, you are not a ‘real’ sub to shut that down, disenfranchise any discussion, also use the this is real bdsm, how I want it, anything else is fake, and wanting to talk shows you don’t understand this and are a failure as a sub/bottom. This type will prey on newbies, and often try to isolate them by using the you must ask my dom permission to talk to me so they can prevent any education or opinion coming along that might challenge their abusive regime.

Topping from the bottom, my understanding is a phrase used to describe a situation when a sub/bottom demands and dictates the precise things to be done during a scene, blow by blow. It has always been put across in a negative way, to create a mind set, in some people, where it simply isn’t ok or acceptable to offer feed back during, after a scene, on the relationship, that it undermines the dom/top, and it simply doesn’t. Giving feedback is important, and should be freely able to be given, a vital tool in any sub/bottoms exploration safely of the lifestyle and activities, and a dom/tops.

How can the person providing the activities, creating the dynamic do so without understanding the needs, desires and things enjoyed, not liked etc if they don’t permit feed back to be given, if frank, honest discussion is shut down. Communication is always needed, throughout a dynamic but in particular early on, so that both parties can fully understand each other, figure out what is needed, what is safe. When I introduce new activities to a person, I go through it like its a 101 teaching class, use a feedback system re intensity, 1 to 10 to guage what is liked, what is heading towards being too much. I ask loads of questions, and make sure I understand, and know exactly what is being enjoyed. Without this communication approach how can I know what is best for that person? I can’t I need, and bdsm dynamics, activities need this level of communication to work and be safe and mutually enjoyable. Please note that, mutually enjoyable, and fulfilling.

Those that say, even in TPE situations, that this sort of bottom to top communication is topping from the bottom are in my view abusers and fantasist, selfish me first people, the sort of people that will emotionally and physically hurt a sub/bottom and as long as they get what they want, that is all that matters. These people are best avoided and what they try to sell as ‘real bdsm’ is in fact an abusers charter to hurt people.

And as a final though, if one is a pro dom/domme, being paid to create exactly what the client wants needs, the only way is to be given precise, exact info to do so, even during an ongoing scene. Thats hardly a negative either, surely the client going away with a big smile on their face and feeling they got exactly what they wanted is the pros goal, as it is the lifestyle dom/domme. I think its time for topping from the bottom to go as a phrase, to be replaced with a less stigmatising, shutting down one. What thoughts do people have regarding that. Worth a discussion.

Of course I suspect the one twue, only way brigade, the dom is king and decides all brigade will not like this, try to piss on it, and of course shut discussion down.

Dominus eius​(dom male){LittleLott} • Jan 30, 2022

Hello,

I came back to this to share my thoughts - however, I can now be succinct:

What dollMaker said!

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Jan 30, 2022

I hadn't seen any indication that anyone was trying to exert undue influence over the conversation or any hint it was likely to happen in the future. Putting your own opinion out here and then suggesting that if anyone dares to offer you anything less than their effusive and whole hearted agreement? *That* is indeed an attempt to shut the discussion down.