New Dom's vs Experienced

SemperDominus​(dom male) • Jul 26, 2022

Very well said. Agreed.

SemperDominus​(dom male) • Jul 26, 2022

I believe that there is a bit of a distinction between someone who is naturally Dominant, and someone who is simply trying to explore play in a dominant role.

Among those of us who are naturally Dominant, a lot of the "role" and overall persona, comes naturally, and is inherently how we are in our personality. (I'm not referring specifically to skill in play; but rather, the overall Dominant behavior, that natural Alpha behavior, which serves as the foundation to that role).

When a naturally Dominant / Alpha is in society, we recognize others who are similar, and we can often understand the natural Dominance of another (or lack thereof).

Similarly, a submissive female can often identify a male who is naturally Dominant (Alpha), and that tends to be what separates female attention between the authentic Dominant male, and the other male who might not have it naturally.

I explain that, because to a certain extent, much of a Dominant role is naturally inherent in who were are. The image that many women have in mind, is typically a naturally Dominant personality.

However, that doesn't mean that a man can't try to *develop* a dominant side; but it might not come naturally, or might not come easily to him.

(I do believe that a certain amount of dominant behavior can be learned, even if not naturally dominant -- a good example would be how a timid man might join the military, and soon have a dominant persona to his personality. So, a certain amount of it can be learned).

In any new dynamic, it is critical for both people to start from the beginning, and really sort out all the details, and to be on the same page -- and especially, to be understanding of the new dynamic, and trying to feel out how each other (e.g. initially, many people try to hold back while trying to understand each other, etc).

I think that in a new D/s dynamic, especially with a Dom who is "new" to the role, it becomes necessary to be understanding with each other, and go with the flow of not expecting each other to be perfect, but to learn together, and try to figure out what works for you.

If you are expecting a naturally Dominant sort of man, experienced in a Dom role, or what you might imagine from movies; then your expectations are focused on something different.

However, if you are willing to be understanding and to learn together, and to explore it with an open mind, and see what works for you, then it can be something potentially wonderful.

Some of my vanilla relationships developed into them having more and more of a kink interest; and it requires a similar sort of understanding (and guiding) while they develop in that submissive role.

Keep in mind -- men have a certain natural male ego about our manhood, and role as a man (even if we don't admit it). It is important that you not make him feel "less than" or like an inferior man, while he is learning in that role; because that will effectively sabotage all progress, and he might shut down. However, be supportive, understanding, encouraging, and even try to be overly eager (a bit), if he is having difficulty stepping into that role. That supportive effort tends to help a man who is perhaps hesitant because he is unsure of how you will react.

So especially with two people who are new, it makes it important to explore and learn, and to be understanding and encouraging in that exploration.

An important detail to consider -- If you (as a female) want to make him step into a Dominant role; try to act extremely traditional and submissive with him, and you will be amazed how much that naturally inspires a bit of natural dominance from within.

Men naturally respond to overtly submissive behavior from a woman, and knowing that can actually help him step into that role easier.

I hope this helps.

For an example of natural Dominant/Alpha Male type behavior; this video (National Geographic documentary, based on a research study on natural Alpha behavior): https://youtu.be/QQgZP0iIaCk

dollMaker​(dom male) • Jul 26, 2022

Alpha male = toxic male.

Toxic masculinity is a massive issue in society, and leads to numerous issues in bdsm dynamics as well, and what it is, is not natural alpha dominance, the existence of which is highly dubious anyway.

SemperDominus​(dom male) • Jul 26, 2022

I fundamentally disagree.

Being Alpha does not equate to being toxic.
That is an ignorant logical fallacy.

To assert that, is simply to ignore facts of natural behavior, and roles that have existed since the beginning of time.

The premise that anything Alpha or masculine is somehow toxic, is an absurd leftist view that seeks to emasculate a man, or anything related to traditional manhood, or being male.

(To be clear, I am not asserting a conservative view; but the ideas you present are indeed quite far to the left).

I fundamentally do not agree with the view that effectively seems to demonize men and anything related to men, and I have no respect for proponents of such an absurdity.

(However, looking at your profile, it does not surprise me that you would support such a view).

As for me, I shall remain firmly unapologetic in being a man; and luckily, my role and place in society provide me the luxury to not care what you think, nor does it require me to submit to such a vile and flawed premise, or to show it any worthy regard. Luckily, my place and role in society allow me to do whatever I want without having to adhere to such fundamentally twisted views. (Call it privilege, call it whatever you wish, I simply don't care).

I fundamentally disagree, and I think you are applying a clear fallacy in defining it as such.

I am firmly unapologetic, and I have no respect for such a flawed premise.

I will not apologize for natural aspects of my personality, which you may lack, but that have existed for all time.

Alpha doesn't mean toxic.
That is a logical fallacy.

Your profile claims to be a Dom, but I see nothing that would merit that distinction, as you fundamentally do not understand so much, and seem quite the opposite.

I have no respect for anyone who presents that absurdity, nor do I respect the premise itself.

We disagree, and I think for the sake of the discussion, we should both move on, and not destroy a productive thread with yet more back and forth of extreme disagreement.

I'll leave it at that.

Literate Lycan​(dom male) • Jul 26, 2022

BLUF: Alpha Male does NOT equate to Toxic Male.

dollMaker, although I have read a considerable amount of what you have written and respect you for your views and perspective, I have to agree with SemperDominus and I completely disagree with your statement above. Toxic is toxic, whether you subscribe it to masculinity or radiation or feminism. But being Alpha only means you are the top. And in my opinion, being an Alpha Male means you are responsible for safeguarding and protecting those you are with. I consider myself very much Alpha but it brings with it great responsibility.

Can there be those who appear Alpha yet are Toxic? Certainly. But the one does not equate to the other. That is an extremely limited and yes, very left leaning, perspective. And I might add pretty toxic in its own right.

I do concur with SemperDominus - we shouldn‘t pull this Forum post off the original intent. If necessary, we can create a different Forum post on Toxicity in the realms of the lifestyle - but I would argue a HUGE number of women and men enjoy the Alphas (whether they are Male or Female). Or feel free to message me offline and we can discuss.

Zelia • Jul 26, 2022

I don’t even think alpha is a thing. Alpha sub, alpha male. All have a sense of their own importance that’s rarely perceived by those around them.

Literate Lycan​(dom male) • Jul 26, 2022

It‘s a term; a descriptor. Very much like someone who says they are a Master. Would you feel your Master is equating this to their own importance? You perceive it so it makes it so, even if its only in your world. And a person calling themselves Master doesn’t mean they rule the world - just their world. Some who feel they are Alpha or Primal or Romantic are just trying to describe themselves in a way they feel comfortable. It doesn‘t have to take away from anyone else.

Zelia • Jul 26, 2022

No Master to me equate skill and commitment. I can see the difference between Dom and Master.

I think alpha sub is often misunderstood and equated with having a powerful role in the work environment outside of the lifestyle. This can be irritating

I’m not being entirely serious but it is an issue. Most women hold responsibility of some kind and to equate that to ‘alpha’ isn’t strictly correct. It’s so much more complex

Defender​(dom male) • Jul 26, 2022

As a naturally dominant male, I have to say that I don't much like the tag of "Alpha" male.

To me, it smacks of strutting around, beating your chest and saying "look at me, how Alpha I am".
(In an increasingly violent society I think it can also be an attractive concept to the wrong type of male, and the wrong type of behaviour. Just my opinion!)

I have seen "Alpha" males crumble when they face something that gets deep inside them, and they don't know how to cope.
For instance, long and painful relationship break-ups can lead to outbursts of violence or even suicide, if you do not have inner strength to match that outer "strength".

Personally I see myself as Epsilon male (5th letter of the Greek alphabet, rather than the first!)

Happy to sit to one side and observe, if that is what is needed.
To cope when everything turns bad.
Not to rant and rave if I am rejected
Able to move on with grace, and not seek revenge.
To deal with other peoples' mental illnesses, without letting it get me down.
Not to let my behaviour or standards slip, even if subjected to the poor behaviour of others.
Not to see listening and understanding as a weakness.
Wear my dominance inside me, and not on my sleeve.

And last but not least - not to think I know it all!

These are my views.
Feel free to disagree.
But do it politely please.

Zelia • Jul 26, 2022

At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter what people call themselves really, as long as they’re kind to people, understanding and show humanity and compassion. Labels mean so very little.