Overt vs Subtle

Overt vs Subtle

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Feb 7, 2023

i think (and encounter) this a lot, so wanted to throw it out there to the community for discussion.

i have a deeply submissive side to my nature? (seems that way), but am often hesitant to put that in profiles or as an upfront identifier. The reason? i find there are (generally) two kinds of responders:

1). The vast majority (it seems?) are some variation of overt control, force, bullying, demand,___________. It's not just the often talked about "insta doms," (and their counterparts, the "insta subs") who express this way, but i also see this in serious, long term D/s people. So, though i don't relate, i accept it as a legitimate form of expression/desire/need for those people.

2). The Subtle Doms seem rarer to me, Those who exercise subtle control and elicit submission by drawing it out as a volunteered expression/desire/need in a sub.

i fall into the second category. my submissive parts actually go into lock down or hiding with the first kind of person, but open in an almost hypnotic way to the second type of person.

There's the basics of my thoughts. Whould love to read Your/your thoughts, experiences, feelings about this?

Curious Creature​(sub female) • Feb 8, 2023

I never considered if “Subtle Doms” are rare. I too desire this kind of Dom but never really thought to call Him “subtle.” There’s a quote I have posted on my profile that says,

“If a woman is not submissive to a man it is not because she lacks the ability to submit; rather he lacked the ability to create for her a place in her heart and mind to fall to her knees”
-Anonymous

What this means to me is the same you’re saying about drawing out the submission in a person. I don’t know if a Dom has to do that subtly per se, but I do know patience is required. Keep in mind I have yet to actually enter the lifestyle. (Working on it lol)

-CC

CSI • Feb 8, 2023

I completely relate to this. If someone tries to come in being all demanding and "in charge", I will become combative and be very much "oh hell no". Probably why some have then said they wanted to submit to me (which is a ridiculous idea). But those that are more subtle I seem to have this deep need to give in to. I find myself submitting (or wanting to) shortly after we begin talking. I feel meeker, but also safer and more true to my own self. It is just this happiness in my soul. It's very hard to explain. Thank-you for the post, it made me think

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Feb 8, 2023

i think you explained "it" well. our feelings don't always have a point of reference that is easy to nail down, eh?

For me, demanding, force, even commands, feel like 'role play.' Which is not to say that it categorically is for the D, but that's the emotional button that gets pushed in me. When i think about how i feel, submission is not on the list. i might feel overpowered and i might capitulate, but to me, giving in from a feeling of fear or coercion is very different from 'submitting.' For me submitting is a voluntary choice i make of my own volition (and i know this is the case for many D or s who are inclined to the second type of dynamic i describe). Submission is something i want to do, even feels like a need with Some.

i know this seems counter intuitive to the terms Domination and submission, but my deepest and most complete submission has happened with Men who express Their desire, not as a demand, command, forcefully, bullying, etc., but as a desire, or even need. Which is never to say "needy." i see a big difference between need and needy. i' m a critical care nurse and often have patients who have too fast for a few meals or a day as part of an upcoming procedure. As an aside, i know what it feels like to fast, i do it routinely because it can actually be healthy. i'm frequently chagrinned by the response some have to missing a meal or two. Some actually threaten to leave the hospital against medical advice if we do not let them eat. They get angry, cranky, abusive- "needy." To me it's as if they regress to being a toddler, throwing a tantrum of sorts in order to try and get their way. Reason goes right out the window.

That's similar to how those who approach D/s as a one sided proposition make me feel, not like they are in control, but trying to assert control from an unreasonable needy position. On the other hand, Those who genuinely suffer in silence (not passive aggressively), evoke a response where i am advocating for them, where i want to relieve them, provide for their need/desire.

For me, it all has to be real... a playing out and connection of each persons real nature. If a Man almost shyly or tentatively shares His desire with (and for) me, not in a manipulative way, as though just using a technique... that falls flat as well for me because it is His real, deep, honest need/desire that corresponds to my own, that i am drawn to and can bond me to Him.
lol, i too am posting this feeling "it's hard to explain." my words feel inadequate here.

I'mME • Feb 8, 2023

OVERT VS SUBTLE

I have encountered multiple personality types when it comes to Doms and Masters. To say that one type personality will bring out my submissiveness would be akin to saying that because someone is a male there is something (whether they know how or not how) they could do to elicit my submissiveness.
Or to put it another way, if a Dom or Master approaches me 'says, does all the 'right things' I will submit.

I can not tell you what someone else has that sparks my submissiveness, I have given plenty of thought. That leads back to labels and boxes. The only things I can do to help someone who may be reading my profile, is to write things like no married men. Is that because I could never submit to a married man, because he is married? It's because he would never get true submission because I would always come second.

I am not submissive to men who play their cards right. I am submissive to the man that touches that part of me. Is it intertwined into their personality , yes I believe it is. I am not role playing so someone that approaches in that manner would never pique my submissiveness .
There are all kinds of things we have preconceived notions about that come from living life. I am open to chatting with anyone that has an interest in chatting.
That is what I know. Because it's not long before I know whether this is someone who I want to keep chatting with, cease communications with. (lol, usually they do it for me,lol)
There is another line of thought, what about the ones that there is a spark maybe become friends and that turns into submission.

@tallslenderguy
It is difficult (as someone else stated) to put into words but I give and have given it a lot of thought. I have a few things I my profile and I one time stated I hate to list things out like that. Bc I never want to miss an opportunity to chat with someone who could be someone I could forge a relationship with.

I guess the one thing I will can say for 100% certainty is that Doms/Masters that think in one color but may hide it.
S-types are ........................ There are plenty of them some hide it better than others, or s-types who think that Doms/Masters are the beginning and the end of everything. It's this type of thinking that sets my teeth to grinding and it's not good for TTTWD. It puts people against each other and I hate that. Or it aligns this group against that group , it causes people to mistreat others in the community, it sets a tone.
One that I will not ever subscribe to.


Thanks for making getting brain fully awake for this beautiful day.

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Feb 8, 2023

Thank you for your thoughtful response CC.

my choice of "subtle" as a descriptor is for lack of a better term, it feels incomplete to me... so i try to fill in with other words to explain what i am feeling. i really appreciate the angle you bring up here. "Subtle," to me, doesn't mean manipulative, hidden or unspoken. It's not the desire or need that is "subtle" but how They go about expressing 'it' and getting 'it' met.

One element this makes me think of is the oft noted need for communication in the D/s dynamic. i think a major part of Domination and subsequent submission (of the 'subtle" kind i a trying to describe) is based on mutual knowing. i have all sorts of fantasies in my imagination of a Man 'simply taking' what He wants/needs with me as He whispers in my ear: "i know you need/want this." The most powerful experiences i have had of this were when He figured out what "it" was without us planning and discussion "it" ahead of time. Can be tricky stuff, but can also demonstrate courage.

Just writing that makes me think of the rapist who says something similar to their victim, like: "you know you want it." With a rapist, there is a huge disconnect, it's a one sided act and a violation. When there is real and true knowing between two people, the taking, and submission, are also real.

I'mME • Feb 8, 2023

Tallslenderguy,

I do not mean to hijack your thoughts on @CC post. Your thoughts help me to define mine better.

I may have misunderstood the original question, are you discussing when someone approaches as opposed to those already in a dynamic?

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Feb 8, 2023

i don't feel hijacked , i want and appreciate your shared thoughts and feelings.

i wasn't meaning to narrow it down to approach or ongoing dynamic. As i see it, both apply? Ongoing is an extended version of approach? Though your question makes me think, part of the challenge of ongoing relationship is how easily we settle into presumption based on prior perception or experience. Though i think some parts of us are more fluid than others, and some parts have the fluidity of glass (i.e., moves ever so slowly, almost imperceivably so), in order to truly connect and stay connected, we have to move in concert?

Curious Creature​(sub female) • Feb 8, 2023

@tallslenderguy
One thing I look for in a Dom is a quiet confidence. I think that is like this subtle Dom you are describing. Someone who knows who they are are doesn’t need to boast about it. Someone who takes the time to get to know who I am and figure out what makes me tick or turned on, or both. Someone who shows they care for me as a woman and as a submissive. Someone who views both sides of the slash are equal. For in my eyes D/s dynamics are like Yin and Yang. You cannot have one without the other and they complete each other.