When it goes wrong

When it goes wrong

Taramafor​(sub male) • Nov 23, 2020

So this is pretty heavy. I want this thread treated with the seriousness the situation deserves. This is pretty extreme. I'm talking VERY extreme.

Been talking to someone. Let's call her Sarah. They were literary a slave. For their whole young life.

They killed their owner at age 16. As well as some other slaves. I didn't press for too many details on that front. But I DID focus on why events happened as they did. Without blaming or judging her or telling her what she needs. Instead of taking that toxic, unhealthy approach, I instead attempt to understand her.

The owner was a religious person that brainwashed and broke this person. In unhealthy ways. From the sounds of it they were using religion as "the answer". Sarah also got changed into a transgender. That isn't just their young life. That's their WHOLE life at that point. Decided for them. Even if they did let it happen.

When you have your whole life directed by someone else, with no choice, with no control, with only punishments and pain, with no affection or support, who wouldn't break? Who wouldn't snap? I'm good. I can remain calm under pressure with volatile situations and then some. But even I think I would cave in under those conditions. Just go to the police? What, with a chain on you? Not being allowed to even move outside? So I look at the situation, see it for what it is, and all I can really say about it is that Sarah didn't know what else to do. She was young. She was abused. She was taken advantage of. She lost control and knows that. She's done everything she can to pick up the broken pieces of her shattered life.

Despite this I haven't been coddling Sarah. I've been reminding her of how she's allowed herself to be in that bad situation. She admitted she was loyal to him. Allowed herself to be with him. Even if she might not have known what else to do at the time. Brainwashing is one thing. But when it's not honest, when it's for selfish reasons alone, that's not for the subs interest. That's for your own. "Young and dumb." It happens. We all suffer through it. Some more then others.

She Kept referring to "the other her". Her past of course. Kept having to remind her she's still herself even now. That she can't escape who she is, that even in the present she's adapting with what she is. Someone trying to pull themselves together. I done that when I suffered. It took me about a year. She's been struggling for 17 years. Yea, I'm good. Yea, I go on about me. But when I do that I go "here's a simple trick to keep your sanity intact". A reminder of response to a situation. To remain in control. To not have your life decided by others. She admitted it was helpful advice. I can't really add much else beyond that since it all depends on the situation.

Sarah also kept going on about how only a man can fix her. Wants support and affection, obviously. This raised concerns. I had to point out it might be unfair on their partner. Support helps. But no one else can fix you then you. Hard as it may be. It's your own life. And you have to know the "patterns". Not just yourself. Someone can help you. Someone can show you. But it's still a door. You have to walk through it yourself. Best I can do is cut past any excuses and gives reminders about reality of the situation.

Where I have my own none D/s past struggles, which is what brought me to D/s, she only has her bad slave past to compare things too. She's still struggling with being her own person. Where I struggled for a year or so, she's still struggling for 17 and working on herself. That kind of thing has really got to fuck you up. There's been no normal life. And normal things can be very harmful too, but what does she have for comparison? That's got to cause severe psychological trauma.

So when I see anyone acting like they understand someone when they don't, here I am thinking "They should know better". And some people on this very site simply don't. Make of that what you will. Just be aware of the danger and harm you cause when you do that. The "lash out" might not be because you're a sub or a dom, but it's still about "Pretending to know what's best". You don't TELL. You don't go "This is best for you". You ASK. You FIND OUT. That's all she needed. Well, she needs to get herself together of course. But she appreciated it. To be asked. To have a proper conversation instead of tossing her aside. Never could not find out about things. Can be a pain at times. But when it becomes about you... Yea... I have to know about that. For you safety. For your sanity. And how you might affect me. It's for me as much as others. I take EVERY precaution. Because rushing in blind leads to bad shit happening.

Make good shit happen. But do it with awareness, awareness, safety and accepted danger. And above all else, honesty. Anyone that doesn't even try to find out, I can't even feel safe around. Unless they show they avoid making certain mistakes. Ever acted like you already know what's best for me when you don't know me? Red flag. See ya. You know who you are.

But this isn't about me right now. Right now I'm pointing out "That shit just doesn't work". Ever. So why do people do it? Genially asking.

SubtleHush​(sub female) • Nov 23, 2020

"They killed their owner at age 16. As well as some other slaves"

So was she writing to you from Prison?

Taramafor​(sub male) • Nov 24, 2020

At age 16? Think about it. Out of control situation. As in EXTREMELY emotionally unstable. If not insane. Keep in mind this was many years ago. I specifically said 17 years ago. You don't get a life sentence for that. That's if it's intended murder.

I never asked if they had been in prison. It's much more likely there was a plea for insanity. Clearly wasn't stable. You're just not under those conditions. There's also the manslaughter charge. Don't know. Don't need to know. But there is something bothering me.

Slave rings exist. As in the against your will kind. With kidnapping. It's not common but it's still fucked up when it happens. To be clear, they were sexually abused, lived in fear, broken, brainwashed and weren't in their right state of mind. Not in the least. They were warped, manipulated, brainwashed. If 16 was the age they finally escaped...

Christ, she was basically a child. Now that's pretty fucked up. I should ask how long they had been enslaved for. 2 years? 5? Their whole life? It's grim whatever the answer is.

DrKrall • Nov 24, 2020

With all due respect I don't think this happened. Unless you actually know this person in real life and has seen proof of this in form of newspaper reports or court files she is taking you for a ride. A case like this should be documented. There should be books, true crime documentaries or even Hollywood movies.

If you don't know her in real life but only online ... This is the Internet, people lie. Get over it.

And why do you refer to her as "they"?

Edit: Also it wouldn't have been BDSM since there wasn't consent between agreeing adults.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Nov 24, 2020

Transgender. Owners idea. The slave still was loyal to them though. Due to the brainwashing. This also means it became consensual. That's actually the worst part.


BDSM is about control. Not everyone in BDSM does things with consent. None consent situations happen. Most often willingly. Both eyes open.


You do realise that exist, right? You've never seen those documentaries on TV about slave rings before? So regardless of the truth of the matter in this specific situation it's still happening regardless. It DOES happen. You might find it "scary" to think about, but tough. Your ignorance and desire to not believe the situation happens does NOT change the fact that it happens regardless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_slavery

Refer to the part it mentions child prostitution. That's the situation here. This ties in with BDSM due to control. In this case the lack of it. Of which is violated and taken advantage of. As is removal of choice. BDSM is about control first and foremost. Dominance and submission very much applies here. Not everyone that does BDSM does consent. Though NORMALLY those people are willing regardless. Considering events can go bad in BDSM I think it's important to discuss when things go bad. HOPEFULLY it's an accident. But what happens when a partner takes advantage and puts someone in danger? There's been more then one thread about abuse. This is the risk that can happen when normal BDSM goes bad. This is the danger someone can be in. And that simply must be taken note of. The last thing any of us want is to be not even know we're manipulated into staying with someone out of fear alone. Unless someone happens to have a desire for that and seek it out I suppose. But at that point is it a choice? Or are you unaware because of the brainwashing? See the dilemma?

You can't fake transgender. You can't fake split personality and struggling to come to terms for your painful past. This is someone I've known for many years. If you want to believe otherwise then that's your assumption. On the plus side they have two (willing) slaves themselves. (yea, we're at the right kind of BDSM now). They wanted one of them to be a dom at first. But their partner couldn't get the whole "taking action" thing down. They just never "instructed" effectively even if they're logical. And it also brought back past painful memories for the transgender. They tried that for 7 years. In the end they decided to be "equals". Which is a misnomer because one asks and the other tells. That is it's the transgender that tells. The slave always asks.

That's all the proof you get. I'm not about to drag them over to where you are just so they explain themselves to you. Get over it.

DrKrall • Nov 24, 2020

I didn't get a quote button on your post but I''ll try anyway


BDSM can be about control , yes. But consent is the only thing that separate the more extreme forms of BDSM from abuse. I have years of experience of TPE, CNC, rapeplay etc. Some of the things I have done to my subs and slaves would put me in prison for years and years if it wasn't for consent.
Rapeplay without consent is not play. It's rape. Spankings or whippings without consent isn't impact play. It's abuse. Consent is the only thing that differ some kinds of BDSM from true crime. Anyone saying there can be BDSM without consent is dangerous to him/herself and/or to others.


Of course I realize this things do exist. I never said it doesn't. I still say it's not BDSM, and what I questioned was the story you have been told and told us.


You can fake anything on the net. Knowing somebody for years online without ever meeting doesn't change they could make up a story and stick to it.


It's not about satisfying me. I just questioned your story. If you want to believe it's up to you, but I've heard similar storys before without any proof and usually it was part of a scam.

ElizaEmma​(sub female){NotLooking} • Nov 24, 2020

There are too many holes in this story ... if this happened while the person was still a child, did the parents just hand her to a slave master? What about school? The UK has a very well-enforced compulsory school attendance requirement and police will literally knock on the door if a child is not enrolled. And where did the slave master take this child to have transgender surgeries done? Doctors and nurses are trained to spot abuse.

I completely disagree with the OP on: “BDSM is about control. Not everyone in BDSM does things with consent. None consent situations happen.” This is plain wrong, without consent, it is NOT bdsm, it is ABUSE. Anything that involves children is NOT bdsm because children cannot give consent. Abuse appears in many forms. And people, like the OP who mixes up abuse with bdsm, consider such atrocities (if these events actually happened, sometimes I think the OP has a very vivid imagination, but I digress) bdsm contribute to part of the problem.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Nov 24, 2020

See, now we're getting into the nitty gritty of it. As I stated already, not everyone in BDSM does consent. At least not VERBAL consent. This is where it can get very technical. Words and how they are said can have implications. It's important to be clear.

Regardless, as I stated before, this is a situation that BECAME consensual. But at the point it became consensual it was also abusive. This is the key difference I want to address. That's not to say that it's always a bad thing when that happens. But in situations like this, when people are with a partner that is unhealthy, for whatever reasons, then it will go bad. That is they key difference I want to address. That the situation is toxic BECAUSE of consent.

Think about it. You might know someone. Be on a vanilla relationship with them. And end up in a situation like this. That's actually happened with me at one point (resolved. Still ongoing with more understanding). Each of us kind of rushed things in our own ways. It's not "consent" that separates healthy and unhealthy BDSM. Minds can change. With incentive (not just fear alone. To be clear).

What separates healthy and unhealthy BDSM is AWARENESS. Of knowing the situation and being aware of it. The situation I described here was "misread". The owner was a, ahem, religious zealot (no offence to you religious people) that basically tried to force their beliefs on another person.

Technically, you're getting something none BDSM related but it ends up getting mixed in with BDSM. So when a normal couple get into BDSM and try to "Force their will" on another person... You have to be very VERY careful when you do that. And make sure it's not about "forcing your beliefs" but rather "Making it about honesty and logic that can't be flawed". You also have to make it about incentive. Giving. Looking after. At no point does the BDSM label cover this. Though it "should be obvious". Thing is, the obvious gets overlooked. A lot.

Some people try to rule through fear alone. Without incentive. Without reward. Taking everything. Giving nothing. THAT is the danger.

To be clear, there''s "verbal consent". And A LOT of the time people can go with "flow". Which can go well if you're remaining aware. But if you're careless and go in blind that's going to backfire.

DrKrall • Nov 24, 2020

I totally not agree with you.

And I once again state if they don't it's not BDSM. I've done CNC for years. Some consider this on the more extreme side of BDSM because it literally means consenting to non consent. But it still requires consent. Consentual Non Consent. If you remove consent it is abuse. The situation you describe is nonconsentual. I still believe you are taken for a ride, but I'm shocked if you truly believe there can be BDSM without consent. BDSM without consent is abuse and in most countries punishable by law. You can't tie people up without consent. You can't chain people down without consent. You can't penetrate people without consent. You can't beat people without consent. If you think you can I think you should stay away from BDSM.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Nov 24, 2020

This only applies if you REMOVE consent. Let's make that very clear.

But what if people get into BDSM (and don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about) and there's no consent TO remove? Just "pure willingness?"

And again, I want to stress that bad situations also become abusive BECAUSE of consent. You're completely overlooking that. I'm stressing that once again. Being BLIND is the deciding factor. THINKING you're knowing what you're doing only for a situation to get OUT OF CONTROL. Being UNAWARE is the number one reason people don't know what they're doing and hurt each other in harmful/toxic ways. I have the experience to back this up. I've never had this issue with non consent situations without verbal agreement.

Sometimes you meet someone and they get "their dom" on with you. You might not have to agree to anything. You might just simply go "This is one little thing we both happen to enjoy". And then they just GIVE. Unasked for. Willingly. You never HAVE to ask. Because you're never in a situation where you have to consent to anything at all. You just WANT to be with them. BUT IT'S STILL SEX, CHAINS, CONTROL AND PUNISHING WITH AFFECTION! Do not pretend that is not BDSM. It is insulting.

Again, again again. Not everyone doing BDSM does consent. BUT that does not mean consent is removed. It's simply "not present". When someone is already there, when they WANT to engage with you, that is WILLING.

That's also why people consenting to engage with each other can HURT and HARM each other. Accidentally normally. It's actually BETTER to hurt someone with meaning and purpose. Doesn't always translate to punishment. It is extremely important to be 100% sure that there's a reason and a purpose behind inflicting said pain. And people do NOT always agree to that despite what is claimed. But it's still "incentive and reward". And making each other better people. Without REMOVING consent. Of which may or may not have been given. Depending on who you ask.