LilMinx(sub female){Not Lookin}
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2 years ago •
Jul 29, 2022
corruptedgirl wrote: I don't know if it's been said yet because these responses are pretty in depth but cold showers.
I'm not big on pain and also give a big NO to humiliation or degradation of any kind (even punishments can't cross hard limits unless negotiated) I played with a Dom a few times who had the punishment of cold showers which was kinda genius. It wasn't painful in the classic sense but BOY DID IT SUCK. I did NOT enjoy it. Which was the whole point hahaha. It's also a good punishment for beginners as it doesn't require a practiced Dom who knows how to wield a cane or flogger or even their own hand and it's a good 'Baby's First Punishment' experience for a sub who isn't sure where they sit on the pain threshold or humiliation. Yeah I know we have cold showers as an idea. I'm not excited...but I guess that's the point of it đ lol I also cannot do humiliation or degradation. My dom detests degrading me because of my past trauma and I even have punishments for when I degrade myself. I have been learning not to degrade myself(although he never knows my thoughts inside). But that's my own demon to battle myself. So yeah, I agree with you on those 2. Those are hard limits for me as well. I've been trying to be open to trying stuff at least once. If I don't like it then we don't return to it. If I do enjoy it, then we keep it. If it's something I'm still not completely sure about even after trying, we keep it in the air and come back to it later to try again. I just want to be open to exploring new things and figure out everything of what I'm actually into and not into. |
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Online now
Literate Lycan(dom male)
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2 years ago •
Jul 29, 2022
Re: Punishment Ideas?
[quote="moll"]
Literate Lycan wrote: Your comment about a dominant who shifts blame is not a dominant is obvious. But my statement wasn't about whether the person is a true dominant or not, just that these types of forum questions are used to avoid responsibility. Seriously....alleviating guilt? So if someone commits a crime in society, the justice system should alleviate their guilt? Because in a D/s or M/s dynamic, the Dom/Master is the justice system. Or should it be, "oh don't feel bad for disrespecting me.....I'm only your Dom/Master.....the promise you made not to disrespect me...oh it meant nothing." NO! If a sub/slave disrespects his/her dominant they should feel remorse and guilt, otherwise that poor behavior continues. When I have disrespected my Master, I feel bad about it and use those bad feeling to avoid doing it again. Regarding using the forum questions as a method of avoiding responsibility, I can see a very distant connection. It may be in how you are wording it or applying it. I would still say, asking a question in the forum and then using the forum post as justification for applying âwhateverâ to your dynamic is still sketchy. If someone cannot hold themselves responsible, they might want to consider whether they are ready to be an adult in life. I may not entirely grasp what youâre saying. As for alleviating guilt: Yes, quite seriously. A Dominant doesnât want their submissive to suffer unnecessarily. Punishment is allotted according to the behavior and many submissives feel remorse for just what you said. But once they correct the behavior, they shouldnât suffer emotionally wondering. Taken from a religious perspective, some religions practice confession. A person knows they âsinnedâ. They can feel sorry, but most people donât actually hear their deity speaking in their ears. Without direct interaction, they continue to have angst and stomach churn. So they go to confession, where they confess and are told their sins are absolved. Theoretically they walk out with the burden of guilt lifted intent on not doing the âsinâ again. This allows them to live their lives guilt free from past incidents. Same implications here. The submissive atones for the behavior intent upon not doing it again. It is the responsibility of the Dominant to ensure the submissive realizes the entirety. You donât use bad feelings to avoid doing it again. You use the desire not to have those bad feelings to avoid doing it again. The threat of punishments help with behavior correction. The threat of disrespecting the dynamic and how that would make the submissive or even Dominant feel bad helps with the behavior correction (because Dominants also have behaviors that may need to be corrected to ensure a good dynamic). This is also why a punishment should never be something used for play. If you enjoy it, youâll just continue to do the action to receive the âfunâ punishment. If anything that would reinforce the negative behavior. As for alleviating guilt, would you prefer to feel guilt for something you did in the first days of your relationship for the rest of your life? Or would you prefer to atone for the incident, feeling secure your Dominant is very happy with your actions, and you continue on without worry about that past incident, intent upon never doing it again if possible? This would be positive reinforcement towards healthy behavior. Society, crime and punishment is an entirely different topic. That is someone making atonement for their actions against another individual or society at large. But once a person pays for their crime as decided by the courts, they should be able to live within the continuing guidelines of society not feeling guilty for past actions. Iâm not saying they have completely paid for their crimes - how do you put a price on murder or even embezzling retirement funds to leave hundreds of people destitute, but according to the laws, if they have paid the penalty prescribed, why do I care if they do or do not feel guilty? I would prefer them to return to society and join in as a contributing member if possible so I donât have to continue to pay for them. |
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ButterfliesAndCuffs(sub female){LJ}
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2 years ago •
Jul 29, 2022
One of the many things I love about being in a dynamic with my Dom is that because of the punishments when I screw up I can atone (as Morley and LL described) and I know that afterwards we move on. Thereâs no bringing up my mistake again once the punishment is complete. We have a clean slate but a lesson learned.
Something else that I wanted to mention is that if you are just looking to explore pain/pleasure, thereâs no reason it has to (or arguably even should be) done in the context of punishment. Tell your Dom what you would like to try and explore. You donât have to get in trouble to figure out how much pain you enjoy. Have fun with it and each other. |
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moll(other female){owned slav}
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2 years ago •
Jul 29, 2022
Re: Punishment Ideas?
[quote="Literate Lycan"]
moll wrote: Literate Lycan wrote: Your comment about a dominant who shifts blame is not a dominant is obvious. But my statement wasn't about whether the person is a true dominant or not, just that these types of forum questions are used to avoid responsibility. Seriously....alleviating guilt? So if someone commits a crime in society, the justice system should alleviate their guilt? Because in a D/s or M/s dynamic, the Dom/Master is the justice system. Or should it be, "oh don't feel bad for disrespecting me.....I'm only your Dom/Master.....the promise you made not to disrespect me...oh it meant nothing." NO! If a sub/slave disrespects his/her dominant they should feel remorse and guilt, otherwise that poor behavior continues. When I have disrespected my Master, I feel bad about it and use those bad feeling to avoid doing it again. Regarding using the forum questions as a method of avoiding responsibility, I can see a very distant connection. It may be in how you are wording it or applying it. I would still say, asking a question in the forum and then using the forum post as justification for applying âwhateverâ to your dynamic is still sketchy. If someone cannot hold themselves responsible, they might want to consider whether they are ready to be an adult in life. I may not entirely grasp what youâre saying. As for alleviating guilt: Yes, quite seriously. A Dominant doesnât want their submissive to suffer unnecessarily. Punishment is allotted according to the behavior and many submissives feel remorse for just what you said. But once they correct the behavior, they shouldnât suffer emotionally wondering. Taken from a religious perspective, some religions practice confession. A person knows they âsinnedâ. They can feel sorry, but most people donât actually hear their deity speaking in their ears. Without direct interaction, they continue to have angst and stomach churn. So they go to confession, where they confess and are told their sins are absolved. Theoretically they walk out with the burden of guilt lifted intent on not doing the âsinâ again. This allows them to live their lives guilt free from past incidents. Same implications here. The submissive atones for the behavior intent upon not doing it again. It is the responsibility of the Dominant to ensure the submissive realizes the entirety. You donât use bad feelings to avoid doing it again. You use the desire not to have those bad feelings to avoid doing it again. The threat of punishments help with behavior correction. The threat of disrespecting the dynamic and how that would make the submissive or even Dominant feel bad helps with the behavior correction (because Dominants also have behaviors that may need to be corrected to ensure a good dynamic). This is also why a punishment should never be something used for play. If you enjoy it, youâll just continue to do the action to receive the âfunâ punishment. If anything that would reinforce the negative behavior. As for alleviating guilt, would you prefer to feel guilt for something you did in the first days of your relationship for the rest of your life? Or would you prefer to atone for the incident, feeling secure your Dominant is very happy with your actions, and you continue on without worry about that past incident, intent upon never doing it again if possible? This would be positive reinforcement towards healthy behavior. Society, crime and punishment is an entirely different topic. That is someone making atonement for their actions against another individual or society at large. But once a person pays for their crime as decided by the courts, they should be able to live within the continuing guidelines of society not feeling guilty for past actions. Iâm not saying they have completely paid for their crimes - how do you put a price on murder or even embezzling retirement funds to leave hundreds of people destitute, but according to the laws, if they have paid the penalty prescribed, why do I care if they do or do not feel guilty? I would prefer them to return to society and join in as a contributing member if possible so I donât have to continue to pay for them. So breaking one's dominant's rules is different from breaking the rules of a society? No it's not. We make a promise to follow the rules of society in order to be a part of that society and a sub/slave makes a promise to follow agreed upon rules in order to be in the relationship with the dominant. Yes, people should be able to earn forgiveness and move on, but they should always feel remorse for hurting their dominant by breaking the rules they agreed upon. That feeling of "I don't want to hurt him/her again" keeps people from repeating disobedience. I look back at the times I've broken my Master's rules and feel bad about it. I'm not twisted up in knots over them, , but when I'm knowingly about to disobey him I remind myself how bad it felt when I have disobeyed and have to decide whether or not it's worth it or justifiable. I don't stop feeling remorse for bad behavior, I just use it to do better. Why should you care whether or not a criminal felt guilty or not after serving their sentence? If you or someone you love had ever been the victim of a crime you wouldn't be so quick to state that. |
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Solace(dom male)
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2 years ago •
Jul 29, 2022
Absolution through punishment is a core tenet of mine. Punishments are intended to clean the slate, including my sub's guilt if it exists. If she continues the action, my punishment is not a sufficient deterrent, or I have yet to earn her respect and trust in complete submission. I think perhaps the latter is what is being misplaced in this debate. Submission, and the levels of its devotion are all separate individual gifts a Dominant must earn. Just because submission is gifted to me, does not mean I have earned complete unquestioning faith, nor does being a submissive mean one has that sort of courage from the gate.
In my narrow view lessons through guilt or where guilt remain are villainous in their own right. Guilt is not the proper way to teach correct behavior though it may be an unfortunately useful tool in a lesson plan. A lesson should be learned for its merits, not because its alternative makes one lesser. |
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moll(other female){owned slav}
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2 years ago •
Jul 29, 2022
Solace wrote: Absolution through punishment is a core tenet of mine. Punishments are intended to clean the slate, including my sub's guilt if it exists. If she continues the action, my punishment is not a sufficient deterrent, or I have yet to earn her respect and trust in complete submission. I think perhaps the latter is what is being misplaced in this debate. Submission, and the levels of its devotion are all separate individual gifts a Dominant must earn. Just because submission is gifted to me, does not mean I have earned complete unquestioning faith, nor does being a submissive mean one has that sort of courage from the gate.
In my narrow view lessons through guilt or where guilt remain are villainous in their own right. Guilt is not the proper way to teach correct behavior though it may be an unfortunately useful tool in a lesson plan. A lesson should be learned for its merits, not because its alternative makes one lesser. People seem to have an odd view of the word "guilt." If your guilty of wrongdoing...then you are guilty...you did what you did and there is no changing it. I think most on this thread are equating feeling remorse for bad actions....guilt....and using that experience to do better with an unending "guilt trip." These are not the same things. |
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Literate Lycan(dom male)
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2 years ago •
Jul 29, 2022
moll wrote: Solace wrote: Absolution through punishment is a core tenet of mine. Punishments are intended to clean the slate, including my sub's guilt if it exists. If she continues the action, my punishment is not a sufficient deterrent, or I have yet to earn her respect and trust in complete submission. I think perhaps the latter is what is being misplaced in this debate. Submission, and the levels of its devotion are all separate individual gifts a Dominant must earn. Just because submission is gifted to me, does not mean I have earned complete unquestioning faith, nor does being a submissive mean one has that sort of courage from the gate.
In my narrow view lessons through guilt or where guilt remain are villainous in their own right. Guilt is not the proper way to teach correct behavior though it may be an unfortunately useful tool in a lesson plan. A lesson should be learned for its merits, not because its alternative makes one lesser. People seem to have an odd view of the word "guilt." If your guilty of wrongdoing...then you are guilty...you did what you did and there is no changing it. I think most on this thread are equating feeling remorse for bad actions....guilt....and using that experience to do better with an unending "guilt trip." These are not the same things. Ah. I understand now. You're not obtuse, you're just literally looking at it differently and are failing to understand what I and others are saying. Does everyone else have an odd view of the word "guilt" or do you? If you commit a crime or disobey a direct order given by authority (such as your Dominant or Master) then you are guilty. In addition, you may or may not feel guilty internally for having committed the crime or infraction. Punishment doesn't remove the fact that you committed the act. Atonement does make up for the act and it allows one to put aside the "feeling of guilt". For my purposes I am referring to feelings of guilt (or remorse as you put it). So you are guilty of not obeying a direct order from your Master, but then you also feel guilty for doing it. And for sake of this discussion, just know that I've actually had this discussion with friends who are submissive regarding their feelings of guilt when they fail to perform or disobey. Atonement within the dynamic helps remove your guilty feeling while making up for having disobeyed so you don't go on the "guilt trip". Apparently to us they are the same thing, but perhaps I should bow down to your apparent wisdom and condescending attitude. No one has said that once you are punished its like the crime was never committed. The direction is the behavior is corrected. And well before you make any fucking comments about whether or not I or anyone I loved was a victim of a criminal act, you should check your attitude and consider you are young and have barely scratched the surface of life. You have no idea what I've been through or my family or friends. My statement stands: I don't give a fuck whether a criminal feels guilt or not. That is NOT the purpose of societal judgments on criminal acts. If a criminal is held accountable by the courts, they are repaying a debt to society that may include fines or jail time or worse. In most cases, it isn't about correcting an inappropriate behavior but about restitution. If they committed a crime against one I loved, nothing could ever make me feel satisfied but I have abided by the laws of the courts as far as society is concerned. Some crimes can never, ever be atoned for. But society has established standards which allow individuals to perform time and theoretically return to society. |
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moll(other female){owned slav}
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2 years ago •
Jul 29, 2022
Literate Lycan wrote: moll wrote: Solace wrote: Absolution through punishment is a core tenet of mine. Punishments are intended to clean the slate, including my sub's guilt if it exists. If she continues the action, my punishment is not a sufficient deterrent, or I have yet to earn her respect and trust in complete submission. I think perhaps the latter is what is being misplaced in this debate. Submission, and the levels of its devotion are all separate individual gifts a Dominant must earn. Just because submission is gifted to me, does not mean I have earned complete unquestioning faith, nor does being a submissive mean one has that sort of courage from the gate.
In my narrow view lessons through guilt or where guilt remain are villainous in their own right. Guilt is not the proper way to teach correct behavior though it may be an unfortunately useful tool in a lesson plan. A lesson should be learned for its merits, not because its alternative makes one lesser. People seem to have an odd view of the word "guilt." If your guilty of wrongdoing...then you are guilty...you did what you did and there is no changing it. I think most on this thread are equating feeling remorse for bad actions....guilt....and using that experience to do better with an unending "guilt trip." These are not the same things. Ah. I understand now. You're not obtuse, you're just literally looking at it differently and are failing to understand what I and others are saying. Does everyone else have an odd view of the word "guilt" or do you? If you commit a crime or disobey a direct order given by authority (such as your Dominant or Master) then you are guilty. In addition, you may or may not feel guilty internally for having committed the crime or infraction. Punishment doesn't remove the fact that you committed the act. Atonement does make up for the act and it allows one to put aside the "feeling of guilt". For my purposes I am referring to feelings of guilt (or remorse as you put it). So you are guilty of not obeying a direct order from your Master, but then you also feel guilty for doing it. And for sake of this discussion, just know that I've actually had this discussion with friends who are submissive regarding their feelings of guilt when they fail to perform or disobey. Atonement within the dynamic helps remove your guilty feeling while making up for having disobeyed so you don't go on the "guilt trip". Apparently to us they are the same thing, but perhaps I should bow down to your apparent wisdom and condescending attitude. No one has said that once you are punished its like the crime was never committed. The direction is the behavior is corrected. And well before you make any fucking comments about whether or not I or anyone I loved was a victim of a criminal act, you should check your attitude and consider you are young and have barely scratched the surface of life. You have no idea what I've been through or my family or friends. My statement stands: I don't give a fuck whether a criminal feels guilt or not. That is NOT the purpose of societal judgments on criminal acts. If a criminal is held accountable by the courts, they are repaying a debt to society that may include fines or jail time or worse. In most cases, it isn't about correcting an inappropriate behavior but about restitution. If they committed a crime against one I loved, nothing could ever make me feel satisfied but I have abided by the laws of the courts as far as society is concerned. Some crimes can never, ever be atoned for. But society has established standards which allow individuals to perform time and theoretically return to society. I find it ironic that you are passing judgement on me based on my age, when you know nothing of my life nor experiences outside of what I posted here. So...pot...meet kettle. |
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Literate Lycan(dom male)
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2 years ago •
Jul 29, 2022
[quote="moll"][quote="Literate Lycan"]
moll wrote: I find it ironic that you are passing judgement on me based on my age, when you know nothing of my life nor experiences outside of what I posted here. So...pot...meet kettle. Silly moll. I'm not basing it on your age but on how you've been responding and acting on various forum posts, not just this one, and on your blog, which you've been journaling on since your joined at the beginning of 2021. Your years on this planet have apparently not tempered you, and considering you are 23, it would seem you have many, many years ahead of you to learn and fully become you. I don't have to know your life experiences although you have definitely written about many of them extensively since your first post. I regret you never did fully indicate why your extremely liberal and open parents were upset that you chose the Professor. That is part of the story that probably should have been presented. They may have had a good reason, considering how open they are about almost everything else. But that is your story to tell or keep locked away. No, my comments about your age have entirely to do with how you've been responding to others in forums. And you aren't that hard to profile to be honest. You have presented enough written material to develop a pretty thorough profile. I know several individuals physically younger than you in age but more mature than many who are in their later part of life; just like I am aware of some who are considerably older, yet act the fool as if life experiences didn't exist to teach. I do wish you well. As for pots and kettles, I enjoy cooking to some great degree. That is how I use pots and kettles. |
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moll(other female){owned slav}
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2 years ago •
Jul 29, 2022
[quote="Literate Lycan"][quote="moll"]
Literate Lycan wrote: moll wrote: I find it ironic that you are passing judgement on me based on my age, when you know nothing of my life nor experiences outside of what I posted here. So...pot...meet kettle. Silly moll. I'm not basing it on your age but on how you've been responding and acting on various forum posts, not just this one, and on your blog, which you've been journaling on since your joined at the beginning of 2021. Your years on this planet have apparently not tempered you, and considering you are 23, it would seem you have many, many years ahead of you to learn and fully become you. I don't have to know your life experiences although you have definitely written about many of them extensively since your first post. I regret you never did fully indicate why your extremely liberal and open parents were upset that you chose the Professor. That is part of the story that probably should have been presented. They may have had a good reason, considering how open they are about almost everything else. But that is your story to tell or keep locked away. No, my comments about your age have entirely to do with how you've been responding to others in forums. And you aren't that hard to profile to be honest. You have presented enough written material to develop a pretty thorough profile. I know several individuals physically younger than you in age but more mature than many who are in their later part of life; just like I am aware of some who are considerably older, yet act the fool as if life experiences didn't exist to teach. I do wish you well. As for pots and kettles, I enjoy cooking to some great degree. That is how I use pots and kettles. Oh wow...now you're trying to attack me by using my blogs. I was wondering when you would start that. You do live up to your reputation on this site. |
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