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Abuse veiled as protocol

I'mME
3 months ago • Aug 31, 2022
I'mME • Aug 31, 2022
Masterbear,

I have never heard or read the thought that some of high protocol is seen as abuse. Where do you read or hear that?
SSC is a school or thought but there is also R. A. C. K.

Risk Aware Consensual Kink

You may already know about it. The thing is if you are in a relationship already, which by some of the answers I have read, you are, and it seems like a long one.
Are you wanting to implement high protocol?

What type of protocol do you want to implement? Would this be outside of the home, maybe events, dungeons, all these type things are factors to consider. Does your partner work? Are you going to expect the same level of protocol during their work time?

And for yourself, it will add more to your load, teaching [training] .

My advice would be for communication to become something you are very very good at?

And for there to be a time when your partner can speak freely and for you to understand what they are saying without getting upset.
Perhaps y'all already have those time periods.

Is this something you are determined to have and what if your partner decides that they do not like certain aspects or any of it.

These are all the things that come to my mind when moving to high protocol. If you are not abusive now, I do not think you will become the person who does not care bout their sub.

Just the fact that you are asking , is one of the ways that you will not become so swept up that you forget about what is important.

There are several books by the same authors who writes about this topic.


Master/slave Mastery -- Protocols: Focusing the intent of your relationship by [M Jen Fairfield, Robert J. Rubel]
M Jen Fairfield and 1 more
Master/slave Mastery -- Protocols: Focusing the intent of your relationship
4.7 out of 5 stars(43)

Sorry it would not give me a link.
I'mME
3 months ago • Aug 31, 2022
I'mME • Aug 31, 2022
MasterBear wrote:
By definition a person cannot consent to abuse.

That being said legally a person cant consent to BDSM either.

I do not believe that consent nullifys abuse.

I believe that abuse is alive and well within BDSM relationships.

I also believe that abusive people become D or M types to unleash that abuse unchecked.
/

They do. Subs can be abusive also by manipulation, using as Doms as a kink dispensary, it all flows back to having some knowledge [but there will always be persona who say well I didn't know nor take any responsibility for anything, go meet complete strangers and then let that same stranger tie them up. And people do not have to be tied up to be abused.
There are also more insidious ways that Doms can be not the most well intentioned people especially when chatting in settings such as this.

We jave to be on our toes [single people anyhow, ones that want to chat, whether the goal is to meet in person or have an online -ship.

Once again Masterbear I think you are safe from being abusive towards your sub.

As Miki would say,
Just my 2 cents worth
Nonya
I'mME
3 months ago • Aug 31, 2022
I'mME • Aug 31, 2022
Alaïs wrote:
The kind of protocols You refer to are not abusive if they are consented to by someone who can withdraw their consent or leave the relationship.

One may be manipulated and coerced into giving consent but I think that subs/slaves need to take some personal responsibility when it comes to educating themselves, vetting partners and being well versed in red flags.

Abuse within lifestyle relationships is an oxymoron. A lifestyle relationship should leave no room for abuse by its very foundation. Abuse exists of course, but it is simply abuse.



Subs should definitely take some responsibility for themselves, by doing some self-education, I mean this type of material is everywhere now. It is more visible now then when I began my journey 7 years ago.
I'mME
3 months ago • Aug 31, 2022
I'mME • Aug 31, 2022
Sculpther wrote:
Sorry, I disagree with protocol being veiled as abuse. If the list of things in this post are experienced by anyone it is abuse, pure and simple.

Two reasons I say this, the first being consent needs to be "informed consent." The individual consenting needs to understand what they are consenting to and all the ramifications and nuances pertaining to that. The second, and perhaps the most important factor is, does the individual consenting to the requirements and/or regulations they are expected to adhere have the mental acuity and critical thinking ability necessary to make an informed decision regarding these activities?

I have encountered many who were subjected to this type of abuse by cult leaders, abusive spouses, captors, and a myriad of other offenders. In the deprogramming process the number of them who revealed being led down that particular garden path were not aware that there was anything wrong until it was almost too late was very alarming.

Abuse/deception only works if it is gradually introduced, similar to the story of boiling a frog. Put a frog in tepid water it will sit there happily as you turn up the heat until it is boiled, try to put it into water that is preheated too hot it will jump to it's freedom.

Mind abuse is one of the most subtle and yet deadliest of all kinds of abuse. Hypnosis gets a lot of discussion in bdsm, and, while it is true that it is next to impossible to get a subject to do something that goes against their core values, it is something that can be accomplished over time with a subject who, through manipulative mind abuse, can experience a subtle shift in core values until, what was once wrong, is no longer even a concern.

Knowledge is power, forewarned is forearmed, etc. etc. etc.

At the end of the day, like in all things, buyer beware. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is not. If it seems wrong to you at first glance, it probably is, and the words "trust me," should be a red flag the size of New Hampshire.


Sculpther,
Informed consent is key for it all. But I still will have to point out that subs have to some type of responsibility, at what point does it begin?

That frog story makes me sqick out every time. Lol.
medwaydaddy
3 months ago • Aug 31, 2022
medwaydaddy • Aug 31, 2022
I think everything is open to discussion but all things should be agreed beforehand and nothing that is not agreed should ever come into the dynamic we are all adults we should know the right and wrong of our actions abuse should never come into the the dynamic ever
Sculpther​(dom male)
3 months ago • Sep 2, 2022

TPE as abuse

Sculpther​(dom male) • Sep 2, 2022
Alaïs wrote:
@Sculpther
Do You consider TPE dynamics to be abusive? What about blood play, sending daily naked and vulnerable images in a LDR, being tasked to use scarification to etch someone’s name into your skin or being shared with others sexually?
Just because protocols are in place doesn’t automatically mean they’re used in an overtly restrictive way, though that may be the preference of some.
Much of what we do in the name of pleasure could be perceived as abuse, yet is is not by those who willingly participate. Just because something ‘can be’ abusive doesn’t mean that it ‘is’.


@Alais, Thanks for your input, I understand TPE dynamics, how they develop and how people in the lifestyle who enjoy that type of thing would never consider it abuse, simply because they signed up for and got what they expected from the exchange.

What I consider, and object to, is when someone in a relationship is hurt or mislead into something they did not understand or see coming. Often it is too late in the game for them to make an escape effectively. Scarification and the other things you mention people willingly participating in are up to the individual in every instance, however, the responsibility for the resulting permanent marks rests in the hands of the Dom who is requiring it. When you are going to get into that arena with a submissive, you should be cognizant of the mental condition of the other person in the dynamic and their mental stability. If there is any doubt in your mind DON'T.

There are many on this, and other sites, who troll for people they can control and when they find one the hooks go in slowly, deliberately, and remain, often until the damage becomes serious.

There are financial swindlers who use bdsm as a means of bilking money out of unwitting strangers who were so excited to be wanted by someone they litereally opened their wallet and threw money at a total stranger that they have never laid eyes on.

I guess my final thought is that at the end of the day when the dust settles, if someone has been damaged by your influence due to your lack of forthrightness or transparancy. You are an abuser.

There is a thing called the Stockholm Syndrome. If you are unaware of it and how someone can be swayed to a position of trust, love, and even a relationship with an abuser, read up on it. Forewarned is truly forearmed.
Zelia
3 months ago • Sep 2, 2022
Zelia • Sep 2, 2022
I think what You’re referring to is abusers targeting people in a particular sphere as potential victims, in this case submissives; In many senses this is a vulnerable group of people who are often malleable and open to conditioning, particular those new to the lifestyle, anyone experiencing sub frenzy or drop and/or those who are inexperienced. I’ve seen this many times on other platforms, and is the reason I don’t use those platforms anymore. It’s not as obvious here because it tends to be initiated behind the closed doors of personal messages.

These people are not, in my mind, Dominants who should have the best interests and the development of their submissive at heart. Thus I separate the two.

That said, in some instances damage will be done by an unskilled Dominant who is unaware of the consequences of His actions, or how to effectively care for a submissive. This is unfortunate but not wilful abuse. This is where things become less clear for me.

I’m aware of Stockholm Syndrome.

Thanks for your response, an interesting discussion.