Is it consent or is it something more?

Reading a recent blog here dealing with the ABCs of the lifestyle, they talked about C being for Consent.

While this is a very important subject, it made me think, is this really enough?

During negotiations, (or what I call the dance of connections) the two or more parties come to an agreement on how things should work out. In most part, the Dom/me asks for and receives the consent of the s type. But does that always go far enough?

To me, there is consent and then there is informed consent.

An s type can give consent to rope bondage, but does that include long period hogties?

When they say ok to suspension bondage, does that include being hung upside down and lit candles inserted in thier anus?

When does given consent not go far enough?

Even for educated partners it isn't very practical to explore every potential out come or scenario. I'd go so far so to say its a buzzkill for many of ladies I've spoken to, that frankly they wish to stop talking to me if I go too far into the nuts and bolts of things.

Rather it appears more practical for both experienced and inexperienced members to keep the dialog alive, communicate what is going to happen, has happened and update what is acceptable or not as things go along. I make sure to check for serious issues ahead of time by asking if there are any fears or issues I should know about ahead of time.

For example a lady might like sensory deprivation, and in her mind she's imagining a blind fold. If she's claustrophobic though, I wouldn't try to put a hood on her without seeing how she feels about it first.

There is consent, informed consent, and enthusiastic consent.

What you ideally want is a combination of informed and enthusiastic consent.

You can consent to something you are enthusiastic about but do not understand, as long as you understand the potential risks or trust that your partner understands them and can provide for your safety. You can also consent to something you understand, but are not enthusiastic about doing because you want to please your partner (without the threat of repercussions from refusal, in which case it becomes manufactured consent, which is not true consent) or to learn something new about yourself.

A common misconception in the kink community is that it is not necessarily important that the sub is also enjoying themselves. This incorrect thought process is understandable from anyone who is just starting to learn and is getting too much information from uninformed or overly nuanced sources, but it is obviously incorrect when you consider that kink is a past-time from which we are all supposed to derive pleasure and fulfillment. The idea that the sub's happiness is secondary leads to partial, manufactured, or loop-hole consent situations.

There should be at least enough discussion to ensure informed consent and to promote enthusiastic.

... and to add that when both take the time to get to know one another as people, then play partners, consent becomes that much less of a sticky wicket.

An obvious example, if I were to have some slicker take me home and do me up straight out of a bar, club, or other activities, there is the obvious need for consent, listing limits, etc. and hope the guy isn't a freak... But conversely if it were someone I knew for a while before jumping into the bed or offering myself for whatever-- "consent" in varying degrees would not be needed, it would be understood.

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Then again there's the legal thing. Consent is black and white... Strip off my clothes and I get what is coming other than life-threatening violence.

But then again take that ex-Dodger pitcher Trevor Bauer, now with Cleveland I guess... He got dragged into court, suspended a season or two and has a reputation-- but was not thrown in jail because he went to far according to his "playmate" -- while he likley gave her more than she was expecting, she consented to a kinky or rough sex interlude.

So despite that outcome, any dominant would be well served to get all kinds of official consent when with a "new" sub. Or better still, just wait, get to know the would-be playmate/partner and the rest is a lot easier.

This right here. Many people just don't understand their actual boundaries and limits until they encounter them in meatspace. So many of our desires/fantasies are porn driven, and when people come up against them in the real world, it can be jarring. There is the fantasy of the thing, and the reality. I would not want to be a man engaging in the power position in this situation.

I go through a very extensive process prior to any play, and I've had partners tell me that it's "a turn off" for me to ask them things such as any history of childhood abuse (I enjoy some psychologically intense play, shit gets real over here and I need to know that if there is some fucked up shit your mother said to you that will put you in a bad spot, I am not going to repeat that.)

I always arrange for safewords and safe actions. If they're wearing a hood, they may not be able to say "painapples," but they can clack their ankles together or some other very noticeable thing we can do that I will visibly see and know, "Hey, time to stop right the fuck now." There are so many levels to consent and to be able to revoke/change/limit consent to activities as we go, it has to be dynamic.

As for Miki's contribution, I agree wholeheartedly! I feel like so many people don't even want to get to know each other anymore; they just want to find inputs and outputs for their desired situation. I engage in some really weird shit, and I can't be doing that with a lot of different people. It's better for me to have that with a few select, trusted people that I know are steady, ready, and able to enjoy our time together.

What a great topic TD. And really great replies too.

Just reiterating what others have said : it doesn't go far enough if there isn't depth and understanding to it. And that comes from knowing each other. Time together, getting to know each other, builds knowledge, trust, respect.

I've never met a submissive who doesn't love the way his/her dominant gets inside their head, ferrets out information, archives it, and gradually builds that shit into play. That being heard and being known thing. And having it used 'against you'.

But that's a process. And one of my bugbears about so many players these days, is the expectation of all that being instant.

Consent is a pearl, it starts with a kernel, and layer upon layer is added.

And then you get the necklace. ?

Safe sane consent you need and rights have that Conversation of things you like and don’t like write down it done the person before you even get in the relationship Be friends first find a great friendship before you even get in a relationship or love and will work out smoothly. Don’t focus on just looking for someone enjoy the lifestyle as it is enjoy your life be the partner date yourself and keep on moving in flowing in life The best kind of things will come and ask unexpected without even thinking. For safety, everyone practicing BDSM should have and know how to use a first aid kit, . “Make sure that you have some sort of communication handy in case you need to call 911,” Don't put it across the room and then handcuff yourself to the bed out of reach. Have safe words have limits.Learn what parts can touch what parts should not can open organs or cause Injury. Why you try things educate yourself first before anything don’t just assume. It Hass to be the same chemistry connection with the person and the same plan and ideas on the same page or it won’t work. Practicing is best practice makes perfect but take it slow didn’t just force it do you need a little romance and getting in someone’s mind and exploring their mind and their worth and respecting them before you could even get anything because trust is a big thing in the lifestyle. You got to have respect for yourself before that’s respect for anyone else. Respect last longer. But to keep a women you Gotta keep winning her over And if you want to get to the point of love in the sexuality of sex you have to arouse her mind first and pleasure her and ways to get her excited to have the best damn orgasm before you can do anything more of BDSM that’s why it’s good to learn these things because it’s not just jump in and have sex it Has to be work worked into. And sex is not always everything sometimes just having conversation and just having a great connection over wine and the company. Just be honest all it takes. A person have to be 100% to feel good and have the south care and grounding feel comfortable with you before they can do anything. Will be sick days there will be days summer on menstrual sex is not every day so understand and you will have days are ether you may not either so have respect for others and yourself. Yeah. anyone can want it but takes that one special person to actually value you. Submission is earned with respect over time.

Not about who wants you. It's about values and respects you. Safe sex is not always wearing a condom, It's being careful who you mix your soul with.

Consent do with someone you trust over time that’s treats you with value and respect. Like pain can be done knee night Pain and being able high Tolerance takes time and practice. You use a tool
Like devil tong or soft paddle at first then medium build. But women in D/s need to be aroused in the mind to work it through female parts to work needs pleasure and romance with simulation in the g spot that’s it twitches and cums a river. Learn a women’s body well when she aroused this training and discipline with love that’s pain won’t hurt it will be more exciting Arouse mind aroused body and arouse parts then working way through with pain. Breath hood may have blinders still have peek little holes and gag still breathe and talk and bit bigger to breathe still be in Deprivation with bound cuffs easy get out off and in. Pain slowly she will ask for more do slowly then medium then harder that’s want more and more over time. Breast easy with with first with pain with a Cain light then hard , butt needs work but worked up to. Clit slapped with a belt , nipple screwers with suction , electro. I have bit of high tolerance enjoy pain don’t cry training over time with arousal but nothing of blood just red and some bruises that’s go away. Things may pinch nothing that did deep. Pain out of love it excites you with the right person you spark that together. Whispering in your ear touching your hair softly slowly touching your body working way to arouse. Building her up she needs be nourished , watered , loved , appreciated . Feel wanted to do anything. Nothing to be ashamed to be maso does mean blood and cutting or having hooks ya not all sado and maso go that deep pain has been a sexually desire for centuries. Be sexy for yourself clean up good wear some nice sheer hair flowing little makeup and body spray please yourself first arouse yourself first self pleasure
With toys work up to building confidence Breaking the comfort zone to share this with be sexy together. Practice touching your body softly like someone touches you . Talk in the mirror softly dim the lights move and slowly dance , taking a shower and looking I. The mirror first tell yourself your fucking sexy this boost your confidence saying better things about self help you working with future partner practice works. Having a good routine working to secure your life not in a rush but with patience take your time. Women takes baths men should to stop old myth you gotta clean the back door a bath good for the body epson salt and lavender body needs to sooth and recover and detox. Ground outside in the morning sun comes up make some tea and coffee have shower wear robe with light loose clothed do some tai chi good to stretch and stimulate the body as you get older the circulation changes good to move the body more also good for concentrate and think about things. Tell your self health improving , I can afford anything , I can have a wonderful life more you do better it will be things will change. Take care yourself people treat you good but you deserve be treated good ether way so treat it good. Dress up even casual enhance your beauty wash face with castor oil cold water then lotion wear a robe and massage face in circles that pat down do on neck caster oil on eyes . Lashes and brows good benefits , refined wrinkles and age spots , scars , stretch marks. Putting two spoons in freezer for few secs then use the back of spoons put under eyes for a min then run of face gets rid of bags and swollen under eyes Will wake up for face. Useing cool tea bags under eyes and rubbing on face also way to refine lines. To keep female body going sex drive you need soy more estrogen taking
Vitamin and minerals omega 3s , magnesium Iron d3 collagen fix reserve menopause. Good routine of exercise hit work outs , Pilates also 3 times a week. Use mount wash on feet use a sponge on summer cracked feet. Fix circulation in the legs and feet clench toes on to a cloth toes up and down and going on top
Toes holding against a wall or chair do up
On toes 10 time four times a day with shoes til do bare foot helps recover legs and Keene and feet to reteat from injury , wear good so socks and Cloth wrap of knee or ankle bothers Only wear for a hour , massage ice on places use some SeasoningCayenne pepper with water run it on ankle and leg helps blood flow also drink it it helps the body with youth use water or mix in drink. Consent with self to taking care of self keep going with the lifestyle. Men should not eat soy does help guy stuff. Omega 3 and more estrogen with collagen ladies build bigger firm boobs Victoria secrets model have used no secret everyone should have.

I don't see why a Dominant who had a brilliant idea or a sudden craving to go beyond what they duscussed ahead of time due to the subs resoonses during play, couldn't interrupt a scene and ask the sub if they would be comfortable with it, before proceeding. They may be reacting to how the sub is responding during play and get an idea to try something more. Or the sub might ask the Dominant if they would do something extra that they hadn't discussed due to the sensations during play stirring up a craving for more of something in themselves.

The only down side would be if either one was in subspace or Domspace and couldn't respond with full permission. In that case, I would only suggest that they finish the scene as discussed and then once able to coherently discuss adding something to it, then plan for it next time.

Talking about something, reading about it, or watching demos, is just part of informed consent. In the case where the sub has never experienced something before, they may be as intellectually prepared as possible, but once they are/have experienced it, an expanded understanding occurs. And then if they change partners, the experience will differ again.

Thank goodness we have some checks and balances in place during a scene that will stop the play if either one starts getting uncomfortable with how it's going.

For me personally, it depends greatly on the person I’m playing with, and the scene we’re planning on sharing. If it’s someone I know well and trust and it’s simply a free-flowing scene that doesn’t hold any particularly new or extreme circumstances, then general negotiations are sufficient (or in the case of a dynamic, I personally give “blanket consent”). If it’s something more risky that we haven’t explored before, or a new (to me) person, then I practice what is called “opt-in consent.” This isn’t a process of saying what’s not ok (“opt-out” consent)… it’s a process of negotiating in fine detail what *is* to be a part of the scene… nothing more and nothing less. (ie *only* what’s agreed to).