Unpopular opinion to share

Unpopular opinion to share

Sweetn'curiousvixen​(sub female) • Sep 17, 2022

Hi everyone, here is a thought that has been stuck in my mind for a little while back, but I was never brave enough to share it, it's about the Movie 50 shades of Grey.
Now before you jump out and judge, please read first.
Everyone says the movie depicted the lifestyle wrong, that it was trash, etc. Here's what I think. Mr Grey was not wrong, maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong but Christian Grey knew what he was doing and did it right, at least from what I have read and researched that is how I expect it to go for me, find a nice man, feel the attraction, analyze a contract, agree in our limits and then we start.
I agree he wasn't particularly good the mushy stuff but, at least at the kink part, he was alright.
I did hate Anastasia though, like, she was so jusgy from the beginning, but tried it, and after while she started to push his limits and questioning him, then she begged him to go all out on her, and when he agreed she decided she didnt like it and instead of talking it out she just picked up and left without another word.
I placed this under lifestyle because I think it concerns my future relationship too, because if I'm wrong I would like to know before getting in some sort of trouble. To sum up, I think the one in the wrong was Ana, because he was very clear from the beginning about everything and was careful and patient, but maybe thats just me.
Thank you for reading and please do tell me why you think
Yours truly
ℛℴ𝓈ℯ𑁍

sexycurves​(sub female) • Sep 17, 2022

Interesting.

I have read the books and heard all the 'it's unrealistic' etc.

I agree that Christian knew what he was doing most of the time. Obviously nobody is perfect and his mistake was when he ignored Ana's safe word. Also, he went round to her flat and fucked her without any conversation or anything.

Ana did push him emotionally. I can't actually remember whether she did sign the contract or not, but she definitely didn't agree to it straight away.

Christian had the money and the space for a dungeon, so he had one. That's not unrealistic. He experienced kink as a sub and then later became a dom. Okay, his domme might have fucked his mind a bit. As well as his mum and being adopted to a whole new lifestyle.

Ana questioned him because she wanted to understand his actions and had her own insecurities. Sending her a laptop, etc. He got her a new car without discussing with her. He, I would say, stalked her. So yes, she questioned him and called him out on certain things.

I see it as two people who were attracted to each other, both from different backgrounds and experiences. They eventually worked out their own shit and met somewhere in the middle.

I don't know if it was unrealistic or not but we need to remember that it's a book, a story. Whether the BDSM parts are detrimental to real life BDSM, I can't say. Because I genuinely don't know from lack of experience.

Personally, I would have dumped Christian after he ignored my safe wording. Ana gave him a chance, that was her choice.

Miki​(masochist female) • Sep 17, 2022

Never saw it, so can't really comment directly. I just went by what I read in here, which was mostly thumbs down, that it tended to only show what most outsiders think of when they hear "BDSM"---- but aside from all that, films of the racy nature don't really knock my socks off.

Well, except good ol' porn. But that's a visual aid more than anything else.

Glad there are some who like it. The creators of any movie expend effort on their productions and deserve some positive reviews.

DrWakko • Sep 17, 2022

The thing you have to know about 50 shades is that its a lot like this site. Someone as in the case of 50 shades and people as in this site get a lot of their information off the internet. They don't fact check. They see something on a page somewhere and take it as truth. Neither camp has invested the time to get into the bdsm community, sit down for classes and learn about the lifestyle. If 50 shades was written by someone in the lifestyle, it would be different. Yes, there would be a lot of it the same, but the abuse and things along those lines would be gone.

ButterfliesAndCuffs​(sub female) • Sep 17, 2022

I don’t remember him ignoring her safeword but he did a lot of fucked up shit. First he says he wants to punish her. Punishment should be something both Dom and sub want to avoid. Nothing wrong with wanting to beat some ass but a Dom that wants to set up his sub to fail because he wants to punish her is different.
The other thing is throughout the book Ana seems afraid of him and he doesn’t seem in control of his anger.
But one of the biggest problems is in I think the third book where he uses orgasm denial as a punishment and Ana doesn’t even know what it is! She was a complete virgin before him and naïve to everything BDSM related. He just does it to her because she pissed him off. He’s a shitty Dom.

fluffypoppet​(sub female){Protected} • Sep 17, 2022

The best part of the book and the movie is that they provide a sort of launching point for discussions around safety, consent, and ethics. Overall, the book didn’t add much to the literary world and the movie isn’t really the height of cinematography.

BUT… here’s my question… are there any really good books or movies about BDSM out there? What would you recommend instead of this to someone that kinda liked it?

I'mME • Sep 17, 2022

Dr. Wacko,
If abuse and things along that line were not depicted or the at least addressed somewhere in a movie, then that movie would not be an accurate depiction of BDSM either.

Ignoring safewords, stepping over the line of consent, healthy vs unhealthy happen in the world of BDSM every day amongst people that are practicing BDSM.
It does have a place in things that are supposed to be depicting D/s .

ButterfliesAndCuffs​(sub female) • Sep 17, 2022

Check out books by Cherise Sinclair. Her “Masters of the Shadowlands” series is really good.

dollMaker​(dom male) • Sep 17, 2022

When it comes to 50 Shades the books and the films are two different things. The books are awful, badly written and simply dire. They are much of a muchness when it comes to other similar genre books, regarding content, which are also very problematic, the only difference is quantity sold.

The films, at least the first, are better than the books, in so much as those making the film went out of their way to make sure that the playroom, and techniques used look and are fairly safe. Not perfect, but not bad. A lot of lifestyle people, both crafts people and kinksters were advisers and contributed to the playroom equipment. LL James was not fully in control at that stage, and the latter films are not as well made regarding the kink in them. However the main protagonist is no model of what a good dom is, but very much what a bad one is, and bad ones can be technically good at the activities, safe even from a technique point of view but have the ethics of a slug.

In terms of Mr Grey's behaviour in the books and films, not good, not good at all, stalking, manipulation, lying, coercion, sociopathic aspects, lack of self control among other things are major issues, Grey is a sophisticated abuser, the red flags are many.

In the first film when Anastasia pushes him re a punishment, a good ethical dom would have said no.

My understanding, from those who exist within the wealthy highend kink world, I don't, say that most powerful rich men, are subs and bottoms, not doms, so Mr Grey is really a romantic construct, a fantasy character, a throw back. In recent times he actually looks a bit better, when say compared to the murdering, kidnapping, gangster in the 365 days films...shudders.

In saying all that, I am not as against these films and books as many, because anything that flicks that kink switch and gets people interested in exploring kink is a good thing, as long as they realise this is complete and utter fantasy, and not a blue print to do kink, or what a healthy relationship or dynamic is. Most I think realise this, but some don't. The things that flicked my kink switches, The Story of O, the Gor books, the HellFire Club in the X Men comics etc are total fantasy, and also not good representations of what is ethical, or good in kink, but they got me thinking, and thinking is good. Without those flawed influences would I be where I am now? I am not sure. So in that context 50 Shades is a good thing, but as a how to, its awful, but no worse that Story of O, Gor etc.

@fluffypoppet

'BUT… here’s my question… are there any really good books or movies about BDSM out there? What would you recommend instead of this to someone that kinda liked it?'

Yes there are, but not many. I would read and watch the film, The Image. This was written by a domme, who even at her advanced age (91) is still in high demand. Catherine Robbe-Grillet, is that domme, and she wrote it as Jean De Berg. Her book Womens Rites is also a great read. My only issue with The Image is doing kink in public places, because vanilla people could not consent and were not asked, not good.

A film of note, based on a true story, The SM Judge is in my view, one of the most genuine, and accurate kink films so far, that I have seen. It deals with many issues and does so well. Its in Dutch with subtitles.

As to Wakko's comments, they come from a place of total hatred for anything online, and as such he says, and its no surprise to me, the following.

'The thing you have to know about 50 shades is that its a lot like this site. Someone as in the case of 50 shades and people as in this site get a lot of their information off the internet. They don't fact check. They see something on a page somewhere and take it as truth. Neither camp has invested the time to get into the bdsm community, sit down for classes and learn about the lifestyle. If 50 shades was written by someone in the lifestyle, it would be different. Yes, there would be a lot of it the same, but the abuse and things along those lines would be gone.'

This is incredibly misleading and simply wrong, though I will concede that there are dangerous, ignorant and abusive people here. There is, however, a thought being forcefully put forward here, that I feel (despite the push back I will get from the followers and sycophants) that online, is not as valid a source of information as others, that in person education is the only place where sound info will be found, and this is wrong.

There are many well known, sound, ethical people sharing their experiences and knowledge via the online medium, many websites have been created by these people, such as those behind Loving BDSM, Luna of submissives guide, Morgan Thorne, Master Arcane of the Crow Academy, Jay Wiseman, Midori and others who all have online presences and educational material present there. They do teach in the 'real world' and have written books, but some do take part on sites like the cage, and have years of reputation. Are these peoples resources, knowledge no good, because the material is online, on websites, podcasts, you tube? Does the medium really invalidate the information? I don't think so. Of course the information coming from unknown randomers may well be dubious, but just because someone is teaching classes or has written books does that make that information sound? No. The thing here, is its about the people, the quality of the person sharing information, their ability to do so and not the medium.

The vibe here, put across often enough by this person is that 'real world' is the only place safe, secure, valid and sound. Munches and events, workshops in the 'real world' the best and only place, 'real world' kinksters et al the gold standard, and yet, just like online these spaces are full of people of varying abilities, skills, knowledge, poor ethics and behaviour. Not every 'real world' workshop or event will be given by a person of quality, a good teacher, a gifted communicator, not every view shared at a munch, or event, in a club, or dungeon a sound one. Frankly there is as much chance of bullshit, misinformation, and abusers being encountered in these places as online.

In saying all that I am not saying that online is the gold standard, but a mix of both mediums is needed, along with books, magazine articles, and video, but discernment is also required to know what is and isn't sound, and it takes time to gain that, to be able to suss the BS from the gold.

It is true that if LL James had done more research her books would be better, but they are not kink education books, but romantic fantasy, fluff writing to thrill and titillate, and as such all the tropes of that genre are there, and in spades, and the books do what she wanted them to do and be. The blip here is they, for awhile became massive, and they have influenced, not necessarily badly, peoples desire to do kink. That for many gate keepers is the real issue here, that their secret, exclusive world, one they controlled, is now full of new people who are discovering and creating their idea of kink, bringing new ideas, lacking the baggage of the 'one twue way', something which isn't these gate keepers totemic view of what is 'real bdsm'. Much of the push back, criticism has little to do with the bad aspects of the books (sure its dressed as that) and they are there, but more the fact that the old is being replaced by the new, and the gate keepers hate that.

@Sweetn'curiousvixen,​ 50 Shades is a good spring board for discussion, and I am glad its got you thinking. I hope you have a fun, safe time when you decide to dip your toes in, I do hope its not a Grey type character.

I'mME • Sep 18, 2022

dollMaker,

E.L.'s first book, 50 Shades , was an okay read. I never saw the movie, but how does one day a movie is better than the book. The book came first and if the movie does not follow the line of the book [not every little detail, but keeps the story in the lines] I am unclear as to how you can say the movie is better than the book. If movie does not keep story line.

I can not say whether the books or the movie brought the influx of folks [IMO, millennials & gen-Z].
I do not know the particulars of the strife between you and Dr. Wacko, nor is it my business. I want to give a different perspective on issues between ''old-vs-young I flux of new people.

A large part of the youngest of the millennials running into Gen -Z is that they do not believe in learning the history, why things were done a particular way as opposed to what is being done now. They can often be quite awkward at having a conversation because for the majority of them they were raised in front of technology instead of having conversations face to face.
Something else I see a lot of is no respect towards tradition. People can respect traditions without adopting them. With that said there needs to be someone , hopefully someone willing to know that history and pass it down along with knowing high protocol, things like this.
One huge issue that gives me pause for cause, but first I'm not positive this is confined to the age groups I mentioned.
When people identify as submissive and decide that they want to experience some play, a sub role, become a slave, property, that they do not appear to me as if they have done any research, read a book, asked anyone with some common sense some questions, sought out a BDSM 101 class, something to serve as a guide.
Another thing that I see a great deal of is people coming into the community and being surprised 4hwt someone has crappy ethics.
I would say to them, guess what ? Shitty people everywhere in society. It's naive and really points to how out of touch with the world that people can become who sit in front of a screen all day.

That's how The Man has been dumbing down folks for about the last 35 years give or take.

That is why people watch the news every day and buy it lock stock and barrel.
So I do not think that old school hates new school, I think it's rather the entitlement air that some, many can give off.