genderfication

intenseoldman​(dom male) • Aug 19, 2024

Amen/Awoman we're all trying to learn and I think that's the key to a better Cage and a better world.

Thank YOU for the discussion LL.

intenseoldman​(dom male) • Aug 19, 2024

I agree with safe spaces, there should be. It just seems they aren't utilized much here.
Also, I agree that education is the key. All of us can learn if we're willing. Thank God for the willing.

Re: genderfication

Steellover​(sub male) • Aug 19, 2024

Honestly, I have not noticed it. Maybe I just haven't been sensitive or aware enough to notice it though.

Recently, I HAVE seen people object when, for example, a thread topic solicits responses strictly "For the ladies..." or "A question for submissive (or dominant) men (or women.) In other words, threads that are looking for input only from one gender or another. I personally do not have a problem with this, but I am trying to understand why other people do. Ad, going forward, if enough people find it objectionable, I will try to be more inclusive if or when I do need to create such a thread. I've always thought that, if a thread topic doesn't relate to me, then I don't care about it one way or another- I just ignore that thread and move on.

Sweet Minx​(sub female){NotLooking} • Aug 20, 2024

I don't like gender specific posts etc because the same question could always be made in an inclusive way. Example: Calling all men who love tits vs Calling all people who love tits. I'm actually very sensitive to this because I've talked to many people who have felt shy, embarrassed, ashamed or scared to post in the forums. To you, it may not seem a big difference but to others it's huge. Even Moreso to those who may be struggling with gender at this moment. This can completely 100% affect forum engagement. But I don't run this site or moderate so all I can do is hope people read this and consider another perspective.

When we come to an online community like the cage and start posting in a permanent public forum, isn't it important that we try our best to be "part" of the community not just use it for personal purposes.? That's my opinion again. I actually have spent hours on trying to make inclusive all encompassing posts that encourage members to join in, feel welcome and post. There was a time I actually felt like it was working. Anyone that knows me or bothers to peruse my blog will see how important this is to me.

I will continue to post on Dom threads or wherever if I have something to say or offer. Sometimes it's silly to chnage the mood or tone and lighten it up. Sometimes it is serious. In fact there was a thread only for Doms that I participated in and several Doms messaged me privately, thanked me for posting and supported my post. So noone should presume to make assumptions. Not one of us knows who all is reading and how they feel. Maybe I didn't please the OP but I did make a difference to several others. Isn't that what a community is about?

Ive read the posts In here and what I haven't seen mentioned is when someone like me (a sub) posts in a Dom only thread and gets insulted, treated badly, or told my opinion isn't wanted or needed, that I'm hijacking threads amd selfish etc. This HAS happened. This DOES happen. And I DONT want it to happen to anyone else. That's just not okay. And I know most of you reading will say why should we care about others or "Karens" feelings, and you don't have to. BUT I DO. And I try to make things better, do better, and make this nasty world a better place.

So perhaps everyone should post how and where they like, but if you don't like someone posting in your thread or don't find it helpful, just be quiet, it may be helpful for someone else.

So when you see me post in a man only or Dom thread it isn't because I'm attention seeking or selfish or rude. I do not have a penis but ill swing my dildo around with the rest of them. There's an actual reason why im posting what I said and it's certainly not because I dislike someone or want to fight or cause turmoil.

Steellover​(sub male) • Aug 20, 2024

There are certain topics that are going to be divisive. There is a recent thread where a person is seeking not only a specific gender, but a specific ethnicity along with that gender. I am neither of that particular gender nor that ethnicity. Now, I'll be honest; race play does make me a bit uncomfortable. But I am really trying not to be judgy; since it's not really my thing, the thread is not meant for me, and I simply have nothing to contribute to that thread.

If I hear of someone doing something which I believe is inherently unsafe and/or unhealthy I will speak up respectively. The key being, talk straight RESPONSIBLY without being condescending. If I hear someone talk about an activity which is inherently immoral and illegal (and we all know what I mean) then that is a case where I most certainly will be judgmental.

I have certain kinks which many people might find distasteful (and in many cases, literally so.) I do try to keep that in mind when discussing these things.

Bunnie • Aug 20, 2024

I kind of feel like people jump to conclusions way too quickly. They take something at face value and attach a whole lot of assumptions to it. Oftentimes I see possibilities overlooked like: how literate someone is, whether a poster is posting in their first language or not, and the possibility of neurodivergence. These factors (and many others) can affect how a post or response may “come across.” If you’re unsure as to someone’s intentions… ask. If you’re unclear about what they’re saying… ask. I believe miscommunication is one of the biggest reasons we see so much bickering.

We speak so often of core values in this way of life. Truth, honesty, integrity, communication, acceptance, “safe sane and consensual.” These things don’t just pertain to our relationships in my opinion. If this is our way of life, we live by those. We want courtesy, we want to be understood, we want to be accepted, we want to belong. If that’s the case… who goes first? If we all go first, we all win. If we all sit back and believe the other should go first, we all lose.

intenseoldman​(dom male) • Aug 20, 2024

Amen/(Awoman) sister! Your sensitivity is genuine SM. I'd say it's your gift. What you are sensitive to, should be a guide for others.
Your hope is the hope of everyone who has posted here, and I thank you for it.

This community is lucky to have you, SM. You provide sunshine for everyone. Your last challenge is a great example. It was fun for everyone, and I look forward to more.

Hell, yeah, and I would add everyone has a place in a community from which they can enrich everyone. Some of us might be just finding ours and learning how we can best contribute. Others... lol.. might be out of place... and need to be nudged back into the place their light shined best... I hope for them, SM


Yeah, that happened/happens and after stepping into it the other day, I decided to post this. To be honest, I've been challenged by a friend to stop watching the stuff going on here that's bad for the community and start taking some action to make this place better. I think we all need to, and I'm very encouraged that there are others here who care enough to take a stand for the good of this community which, I truly value.
Again, thank you for your contribution, SM, not just in this post, but everywhere you are. Keep swinging that dildo of yours around, girl... It indeed does make this nasty world a better place!

intenseoldman​(dom male) • Aug 20, 2024

That we all had your presence, Bunnie. I guess you don't have to be a genius to make allowances for such factors before you react. Sorry to say, however, that I am prone to shoot first and ask questions later once in a while. Ty for this insight.

Apply the core values of our lifestyle to our lives? Damn! You hit the ball right out of the park... I don't know what that would be in cricket where you're from, but here, it's a grand slam walk off home run! (cheers, roaring applause, whistles, shouts, score board flashing, fireworks exploding) Ty, Bunnie!

Heero​(dom male) • Aug 21, 2024

Oh boy, I suspect this will end up being one of my loooong posts. Ah, well. I haven't been responding much in the forums for a while; I can do this and go back into hibernation.  

In an attempt to keep things as short as possible, there are thoughts that I will not voice because I see other posters having very similar positions to my own on this topic. In a similar vein, I may occasionally echo something that has already been said, and may not acknowledge this in the moment. Generally, my position will line up well with the postings, thus far, of: LL, MisterAshmodai, Steellover, and Bunnie. However, it is my intention here to offer something novel to the discussion and highlight some angles that may not have been considered.    

It is my personal belief, that sometimes we need to take a step back and take a look at things from a higher level, lest we miss the forest for the trees, and get too caught up in emotions. Hence some of my thoughts will be of "a general nature". I have a pension for deductive reasoning (could be how my mind works, could be due at least in part to occupational hazard), and I find that it has served me well.

To get the super personal out of the way: 

* I don't feel the need to go where I'm not wanted:
As Steellover mentioned, I think if there are extenuating circumstances that would compel me to respond to something (it being inherently unsafe, for e.g.) then I will respond. Otherwise, I do not feel the need to give my opinion if someone doesn't want it. For various reasons, I do not see it as healthy or prudent to force my inclusion into something, unless there is a very important reason to do so. Responding to a forum post on the cage is not an inalienable human right. People can live very fulfilling and happy lives even if they've never seen or responded to any forum post on the cage. If someone is not being actively and specifically barred from participating in a discussion, I tend to leave it be and believe this to be a healthier approach in many ways. 

* Life is hard enough, no need to make it harder:
There are enough things in life to raise my blood pressure and cause me stress. Assuming that a poster had ill intent posting something, and getting riled up over it doesn't seem worth it to me. At best, this is wasted effort, because someone with ill intentions will eventually reveal themselves. I need not force the issue if there is no extenuating circumstance compelling me to do so. So I agree with Bunnie here. Many who are sensitive to a certain topic will jump to conclusions and assume the worst about a poster without really knowing about the intentions or faculties of the poster. I do not think this is healthy or good for anyone involved. 

* No one is 100% bad:
There are very few people who really intend to be assholes. Most of us are doing what we think is "right". It's not always the case that we are right, that's why we live and learn. But something I have seen with increasing frequency here, and it concerns me, is that a user with an unpopular opinion in one sphere/topic, will be "blacklisted", and then if they make a post about any other topic, the worst is assumed about their intentions automatically. It may well be the case that someone is on the wrong side of a topic, but that does not mean they will be on the wrong side of *every* topic. We are all right and wrong about some things. And many forget this, and needlessly hate on other users and create a negative environment which they themselves claim to want to combat. 

* Life is too short to take everything too seriously:
Some things in life should be taken seriously. Other things, not so much. Someone likes pineapple on their pizza? Likes the color green? Loves heavy metal music? Wants the opinion of specific people to a question that they have? Chill! Yes, even if you disagree with all those opinions. Chill. It is not that serious. And, contrary to seemingly popular belief, you are NOT creating a safe and inviting space by getting up in arms about everything you disagree with. 

* There are so many better alternatives:
Let's say you really believe that a post should be more inclusive, or is missing a vital component where the discussion is greatly hurt by not having it. Could there possibly be a better way to deal with that than hating on the OP? Seriously. Take a moment to think about this. Is your goal inclusivity for everyone EXCEPT the OP? No? So, is there a better way to respond?

Heck, let's even appeal to the golden rule. If you made a short-sighted post, would you want the forum to throw flames on you? Get up in arms about your opinion or thoughts? Assume the worst about you or your intentions, and then stick that reputation on you whenever you post about anything at all? Would that feel inclusive to you?

Is there a better way to respond within a post when you see something amiss? Maybe to say something like "Hey, I know you asked for these people's opinion, but in my experience they tend to have this blindside that I think you should be concerned about, so I just want to put my two cents here:" Or perhaps, would it be better to just open up another forum post to deal with some blindsides that concern you? Much like lambsone did here (https://thecage.co/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5993) with this very forum discussion? Could that possibly be better than asserting someone is a bigot or shortsighted or being exclusionary? Think about what environment would be created if most people were one of these ways vs another.

If you're really concerned with making a more inclusive and inviting cage, and claim to put a lot of effort into championing this cause, could it possibly be worth the effort to come up with better alternatives than to respond with vitriol? I think there are many better alternatives, but I leave it to you to come up with your own. My advice would be to give the poster the benefit of the doubt, until and unless that poster directly removes said doubt. 

Someone not being as inclusive as they can possibly be (by whatever metric you have in your mind) is not the same as them being deliberately exclusionary or bigoted or backwards or a creator of a negative environment. I think MisterAshmodai said something to this effect also. Many times, it is an ASSUMPTION that they are being exclusionary, and not the case or intent of the poster. Then a lot of negativity is thrown at the poster, who now has to defend themself and it becomes quite the off-topic shitshow. 

And even if the poster is deliberately being exclusionary for the purpose of their question, there is no issue if it is done respectfully and without ill intent. And there is a better way to handle it than starting a war in the forum.  

* Two wrongs don't make a right:
Olive branch time. Yes, there are posters who will make a post that is exclusionary in regards to who can respond, and they will then be very aggressive towards anyone else responding. To me, that falls under an "extenuating circumstance" and you can call out such posters when they reveal themselves to be such. But I think that assuming someone is exclusionary just because they ask for specific opinions about specific things, and to take up arms against this person as some sort of reaction, that is wrong in and of itself. It doesn't make you in the right anymore to do that preemptively, and you lose the high ground as you are doing the sort of thing you're claiming the other person is doing. What that does is make you into the very thing you're trying to fight. You are literally telling someone that they're not allowed to be curious about a particular thing, and you are restricting that person's right to freely express an idea or curiosity they have in a safe space. You have directly NOT created a safe space for that person. 

* Yes, the forums are public...but they are also personal:
Many people post in the forums regarding personal issues they may have. Think about how absurd it would be to say something like, "having that personal issue is exclusionary, most people don't have that issue and so you're not being inclusive! Away with you!" 

Yes, it is a public forum, but the contents of the forum are often quite personal. Not every post is (or should be) geared towards maximum engagement. We're not creating laws here. Our posts won't be used to govern the lives of people in real life or even site-wide. We're not always considering the plight of the group, sometimes it's about the plight of the individual. Sometimes a poster wants a more personal response. Have you never wanted the opinion of a particular person, or trusted advisor, or someone like you? Have you never wanted to understand how someone in a complementary position to you might think about a situation? Is this really such a strange thing to be curious about and to be met with such aggression? Is it really necessary/desirable/prudent for the opinions of EVERYONE to be considered for EVERY question? 

Be careful that in the effort to do away with black-and-white thinking and negativity that you don't create these things yourself. There are natural variations in life and not everything has to be one size fits all. Sometimes things should have a wide appeal and application, and sometimes not. Sometimes everyone should be included in something, and sometimes not. Do not succumb to the irony of creating a hard and fast rule that shouldn't be in order to combat a hard and fast rule that shouldn't be. 

Sweetlydepraved​(masochist female){Owned} • Aug 21, 2024

Interesting response! However, I'd like to emphasize a few points that align with the core values of this forum, particularly its role as an educational environment.

Firstly, inclusion is not merely about being invited to every conversation or post. It's about ensuring that all members feel respected, heard, and valued. The idea that people can live fulfilling lives without participating in forum discussions might be true on a broader scale, but within the context of this forum, we strive to ensure that every member has the opportunity to contribute meaningfully without feeling excluded or marginalized.

Secondly, while I understand the need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture, it's important to remember that this forum is dedicated to education and growth. Part of this mission is to engage with diverse perspectives and experiences. Excluding certain voices, intentionally or not, can undermine the very purpose of our discussions. It’s not just about personal preferences or comfort zones; it’s about the collective responsibility to contribute to a learning environment that benefits everyone.

When it comes to identity—especially gender identity—it’s crucial to recognize that these are far more complex and significant issues than simple preferences, like enjoying pineapples on pizza. Identity shapes how people experience the world, how they relate to others, and how they are treated in various contexts. Dismissing or downplaying the importance of these aspects can have far-reaching consequences on an individual’s well-being and their sense of belonging within the community. Our discussions need to reflect this understanding and offer a space where these crucial aspects of identity are respected and acknowledged.

Moreover, it’s essential to approach discussions with the understanding that not everyone shares the same experiences or viewpoints. While some may not see the need for active inclusion, others may feel the absence of inclusivity deeply. It’s not about assuming the worst of someone’s intentions but about recognizing the impact of their words and actions on others.

Lastly, while the forums are indeed a space for personal expression, they are also a shared space where the responsibility of legacy falls on each poster. For someone who posts almost daily and takes up a significant portion of the narrative, this responsibility is amplified, thus the amplified reaction. I don’t speak out against every poster because not every poster is dominating the space. This means being mindful of how our words might affect others and striving to create an environment where everyone feels safe to share and learn is even more important.