BDSM DYNAMICS - Communication and Consent

***This is longwinded as I tend to be, but it is truly because i try to be careful to communicate thoroughly and avoid misunderstanding. i do hope to see some contributions. Write about whatever you like, but let’s keep personal details out if it violates another’s privacy and not feed flames. i am hoping new people can see some examples of what is available and what might work for them. Let’s get some real conflict resolution and prevention strategies here to assist those that may feel stuck? I know this has been covered many times, but maybe a fresh thread will be good.

THE TOPIC
I am concerned the lack of structure and communication in some early, or any, dynamics can set people up for unnecessarily ugly outcomes. This can truly injure people both inside and out and maybe something can help if implemented into their dynamics? Once set up, how should adjustments be approached, how should violations be handled.

Can we open a new discussion (new because we talk about this a lot) about consent, communication, and contracts / agreements between people engaging in BDSM dynamics?

Specifically can we discuss personal responsibility and accountability in initiating these agreements (all sides) and then tips if there is a dispute on steps to resolve or how to sever the agreement. I think it is understood, if there is a complete breakdown that severs the agreement, protocols aren’t required. If the parties do not wish to sever the dynamic, they should set up rules to communicate (in advance of issues) and even potentially ask if a third party could participate if consent is given by all parties. It the responsibility of each party to adhere to, adjust together, or sever the dynamic without violating consent and abusing one another.

I believe we all have felt how private or public grievances or attacks on a person’s abilities and mistakes break down the trust and violate the agreements. In this lifestyle we make agreements to help us communicate. I feel, communication is vital in any relationship dynamic, especially BDSM, and is up to each person to be responsible to communicate within the agreed upon framework of their dynamics. BDSM dynamics structure is amazing in that it is built to teach people to create and respect boundaries we should use in all relationships, not only kink.

As an aside, i do feel it is important in this community, to be careful throwing out labels and branding someone abusive without remembering that we have agreements and personal responsibilities to protect us. That “abusive“ is a serious allegation in this community in particular and should not be used lightly, so people don’t ignore serious warnings after too much crying wolf, but if you are being abused get out, reach out, and get help. Examples of how lack of communication or personal accountability can be abusive and dangerous to partners in the dynamic could be helpful. Lastly, consent violations happen to people on both sides of the slash; i think D, M, S / sides of the slash are emotionally abused more than people talk about and can have and use safewords too.

I know that seemed to cover a lot, but i feel all of the above can all be covered by the agreed upon dynamics decided between the involved parties. Some may just not know how to adjust the agreements or escape them.

I like you, but this post comes across as blaming victims. Let's face it: ours is a world where predators take advantage of newbies who either don't know or know wrong. There's personal responsibly, but we can't look at it independently of a power dynamic. I freaking hate a bullshit book/movie series about a certain abusive switch, but it shows how someone with a little experience can take a complete novice, groom them, and twist something lovely into something just wrong.

I don't think that we should be careful when throwing out labels or expect a novice to assume the same level of personal responsibility as someone with multiple years of experience. What we should expect is to judge someone by their deeds, not their words. Hearing that someone is x isn't going to change your opinion much of them if you've always known them to be y.

i appreciate your contribution, but there is nothing in what i wrote that is victim blaming. it is about asking both parties in bdsm dynamics to set up an agreement which includes how why and when to edit or exit the dynamic safely without hurting one another. it is about exiting if the agreement is breached...

i asked people to contribute their advice on how they personally form a healthy dynamic with clear boundaries and both being personally responsible to not enter into such, without. maybe people reading would realize this is something they will require.

abuse is abuse, calling abuse over communication issues is not always abuse either. i have been abused as many of us have and i never blame a victim. ever. how about seeing it as an attempt to give ideas and resources to not inadvertently abuse someone and to not inadvertently stay in a dynamic when or if breaks down. this was a topic on promoting healthy communication and structure in a dynamic to help prevent some potentially avoidable pitfalls.

I went to an unfamiliar restaurant with my soy and gluten allergies. The menu was written in a different language and the waiter’s English was very poor. I tried to communicate what I could and couldn’t have, while trying to stay safe. It wasn’t at all what I knew and I was in a whole new world. Sadly, despite my best efforts, I wound up with horrible cramps.

This is what this world is like for newbies. Stop and remember what is was like for you. Someone speaks a language that you don’t know. You would negotiate but you don’t know what to negotiate or how much. You can’t make boundaries because you don’t know what they look like or how to maintain them and you may have someone telling you that they aren’t even necessary and to trust them. You may even get some great advice about trust or read people sharing how they overcome their trust issues.

You can’t discuss communication without acknowledgement that some are not able or speak a different language. You also have to acknowledge that by trying to crack down on false accusations, you might make people afraid to communicate true ones or deprive the confused of the chance to be educated about what went wrong and how to do better next time.

so wouldn’t it have been great to have an experienced interpreter nearby OR an english menu!? .. and for newbies entering into something like bdsm to be reminded to practice safely and what that means and what they should look for by an interpreter...hence me asking for contributions? (point of entire post)

*with food allergies (not intolerance) like that, someone would probably have to abstain until they knew what was on the menu or risk injury or death? people won’t likely abstain even if they know nothing of the lifestyle, so how about experienced players use a new thread to offer advice new or practicing people might find helpful? i’m sorry you don’t like my post. if i sat at the table across from you asking if you wanted me to get help interpreting the menu, would you tell me i was shaming your allergies?

do you have any suggestions?

Sweets, I feel like something "went down" in the cage the other day, and I'm catching whiffs of it here and there. I haven't been part of this community long enough to feel entitled to the details of what happened, and of course I'm curious, but I suspect that some parts of your post might be referring to this recent incident and obviously I can't comment on that.

However, I think your post is asking some great questions that I hope to learn more about.

In my limited experience, communication is obviously key. If you and your partner can't establish communication that works for all parties, then I would assume that it's better to figure out your communication issues before continuing a D/s dynamic or agreement. Perhaps I'm wrong there and would like input from others, but I think that if someone is struggling with their partner to be on the same page about an agreement, regardless of how "formal" the agreement is, I think hopefully all parties would be responsible enough to take a step back and agree they need to work on their communication before going forward so that no one gets hurt or misled.

Early communication is especially important. Like I said, I have limited experience, but I think establishing what is a "hard" limit and what limits are softer very early on is helpful. This way, the dom knows that if they REALLY need their sub to be comfortable with something, if it's a hard limit, you're both probably better off elsewhere. But if it's a softer limit, maybe you can work to find that sweet space for both of you in the grey area and it's worth giving your dynamic a go. I think it's also helpful to the sub because if they are being pushed out of their comfort zone, they still know exactly where that ends. If they suddenly find themselves past that hard limit without prior communication, the sub will know that this isn't playful pressure, this is their limits being disrespected.

What @Kara said is true, there are lots of predators out there that can take advantage. Ignoring that there are "doms" out there who straight up abuse others isn't going to do anyone any good, but in a world where so many of us seek to be led out of comfort zones and pushed to and past limits, it is dangerous to look at what someone else is doing and cry "abuse!" I don't think the word "abuse" should be thrown around lightly, but if abuse is happening and it's not being acknowledged for what it is for fear of "labeling" someone's behaviour or attitude, people can get hurt. Being in an online setting has advantages but you also miss so much nuance of language - playful language take out of context could definitely look "abusive" to third parties, just like someone who sees an impact play session might not understand what they're seeing. However, anyone who has seen a loved one struggling in an abusive relationship will know that in some cases, third party intervention might be necessary.

I would want to learn more about what people consider "abusive" in terms of communication, punishment, and entering into and enforcing agreements in the different flavours of BDSM that we enjoy here.

Sweets, what you said about tops being manipulated and abused I think is also important to discuss.

Yes, I do have suggestions. I believe that I gave you a few when you joined, but I may have you confused with some of the others who asked me for advice over the years.

Trust your instincts, especially if you are new. Seek out experienced people and learn as much as possible before getting involved in your relationship. If you feel that something isn’t right, share with others and be open to advice. Know that your feelings are totally valid and that your voice needs to be heard.

Oh, and if you somehow wind up in the Asian section of town and have to make a detour to eat because you may pass out otherwise, try not to eat anything anyway. It may be that the only place nearby may thicken the stuff in the egg drop soup with flour and it’s your fault for not speaking Manderin.

thank you, ursa . as far as what happens between people here i am not participating in any of that, so am not aware and prefer to stay that way. if there is a breakdown in communication i prefer to work that out. even the discussion in another forum was resolved privately. my intention for this post is just to help each of us, new and experienced, remember we have wonderful guidelines and resources in one another (this community) and we can come together to help us try to have healthy dynamics as best we can. i am in a loving and fulfilling relationship which i think is in part because of how much We have learned about communication and boundaries in our reading and relationships in the bdsm community. i want so much for others to find way a through the hardest parts, like We did, using guidelines others laid out for us and making them our own.

Kara, i can write what i wrote. if you want to add more content to this post since i asked for specifically that, it will definitely be helpful to the community. your contributions are sure to be helpful. and yes i did ask your advice when i joined the cage and was having trouble with communication problems in my dynamic. which is why i asked people to contribute here.

is telling me how i failed in my message rather than adding your own points without making them pointed a better way to communicate on this forum? please focus on offering help and lay off me a little? i’m asking you to respect the boundary and stay on the topic without making it personal

This is a forum for discussion, not a blog where you can control comments or dissent. If that’s what you want, contain it to your blog.

I have been trying to help, but you keep speaking over me without addressing my concerns or my pointing out how nothing is one size fits all. At this point, I am done with what feels like wasting my time and effort. I am bowing out of the conversation and moving on to productive things.