Collars

cherilynn​(sub female) • Feb 22, 2022

I find it very sad that the collar has lost almost all significance in this lifestyle.

And velcro collars...
Don't even get me started. A collar is sacred; an outward acknowledgment of love, devotion, and loyalty to a Master or Dom. There use to be great pride in wearing a Master or Dom's collar.

But things change. I am very happy to see that there are others here with similar views. We need to hold on to these traditions with both hands.

This whole darn thread just pisses me off.

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Feb 22, 2022

Your dismay is easily understood by those few of us who do remember "the way things were" - but like I've lamented over MANY times, the in thing to do now is for each individual to write their own playbook and behave as though there never was a time when their really existed a defined hierarchy that maintained a recognizable standard of protocols. Those that bemoan that they are being marginalized or "disrespected', however, have no shame and feel no qualms about telling us lingering traditionalists to pack up our toys and step aside for their "new wave". The sheer gall of them complaining about anyone whose opinions differ from theirs is mind boggling.

LongerJohnny​(dom male) • Feb 22, 2022

A collar for play is awesome fun but hopefully it is understood that that all it is in that context - play and fun. And there are some that just look really reeeally reeeeeeeallly good around her throat.

I do love love love personalized anklets and chokers and things like that which symbolize a relationship, and there are those that have O or D rings that can be used for leashes and things like that.

But I think there should be that One Special Collar that should be a vow and not merely play or a fashion statement.

Re: Collars

dollMaker​(dom male) • Feb 22, 2022

I have been sort of avoiding this topic for awhile now, because its been done to death elsewhere, on the Cage, and usually gets very heated, and pretty much in all the ways it normally does, and often coming from the same people, including myself. I have a particular set of views about the topic in that I don't think anyone including the OP, has any right to try and dictate to anyone what a collar should mean to anyone else, how its used, what it means to them, if its a choker or not, is their business. I find it puzzling that an alternative lifestyle community, and its members should ever try to force some sort of an orthodoxy onto those practicing an alterative lifestyle.

I understand that many people had formative experiences with community groups/houses in their locale, and various people, and its good that these were as fun, enjoyable and meaningful to those who experienced them, but does that mean that those experiences, the rules, protocols, symbolism of things that had meaning to you, should to anyone else, whether in the physical world or online? Just because others do things differently or take different meanings from things, want to do something different does not devalue what you hold precious from back in the day or more recently.

As I read these threads I often see an attempt, often well meaning, personally invested, and sometimes with a very strong agenda, which I feel is somewhat toxic, to force an orthodoxy onto people, an attempt to homogenise meanings and lifestyle practices (not activity skills) to present a this is the way to live it ethos. Sure it works for you, you find comfort and meaning, happiness, purpose in it but not everyone will or should even. Often these discussions on collars resemble cis het religious orthodoxy, with collars being given the same meaning and symbolism as wedding rings. I find it bizarre that alternative lifestyle practitioners would want to do that, as a monolithic, church like thing, which often is how this reads - the one twue church of bdsm - which to my mind outside of safe activity skills information is not a good thing, after all bdsm is an alterative lifestyle practice not an monolithic orthodoxy.

Also often in these threads something else raises its head, the perpetrating of a mythology, which does not exist and never did the old guard. Its pretty obvious that those spreading this have not done their due diligence regarding the topic, because if they had they would not write what they write.

Before the 1960s, when alterative lifestyle pamphlets and papers began to appear, there was very little media to disseminate any info about anything bdsm or fetish. It was as underground as it could get and locked often to its locality. There was very few safe ways to share anything, the forces of law and order very active to crush anything that was outside the established cis het religious orthodoxy. If you look into the world of pornography and erotica, fetish imagery, even comic books, you will see how incredibly hard it was to do anything, so the idea there was any kind of unified thinking, or lifestyle practice back then is simply crazy, wrong, and very misleading.

The mythology of the motor cycle groups gets thrown up, and that they had very strict rules and protocols regarding collars etc and this is again incorrect. There was no unified anything among these groups, what they did was what they did in their club, among each other, and nowhere else, except maybe by accident, and the same goes for the bars at the time. Things were a lot less formal, or structured, so the narrative being pushed that these were the monolithic unified old guard, the originators of everything is simply not true, its a golden age mythology that looks great on paper, but its a figment of some peoples imagination. It is not me saying that by the way, but people who where around then, people like Guy Baldwin, who was active in the 60s. In saying that I am not seeking to rob pioneers of their importance in the history of bdsm, gay BDSM, not CIS Het BDSM, but to give some context.

Until the net came about, kink, whether gay or straight was pretty much restricted to locations, info in underground magazines, newspapers and books, with very limited media representation. It took a long time for things to open up, and its during the 80s and 90s when bdsm began to become more widely present, visible, meaningful, and structures and ideas disseminated, by people on the internet.

Modern ideas about bdsm evolved over time, coalescing from many disparate sources, but much comes from the loud voices in chat rooms back then, as it still does, long gone websites and reflected the ideas, and what worked for those people in their relationships, dynamics and such back then. BDSM is an ever evolving thing, its not static, ideas on consent, and activities have come along way as has inclusivity, though that is still a long way off from being perfect as BDSM is still mostly CIS Het, and white. Back in the day 60s Leather was almost exclusively male, and only over time did it evolve to be inclusive of women, the trans community, people of colour and CIS Het, straight people.

The reason for mentioning all this is to counter the idea of the golden age, universal, monolithic oneness that some try to push. It never existed and never will, but diversity of approach, ideas, inclusiveness, the net etc is a good thing, its not a bad thing. No one is threatening what works for you, what you cherish, what is meaningful to you. If you want to, and those involved with you want to view collars as wedding rings go to it, if certain lifestyle choices work for you that's great, but by the same idea of respect for that, what others like to do, enjoy, what works for them should also deserve equal respect, whether its in the physical or online.

Sadly though, as these threads often reveal, people are not open minded or respectful enough to allow the, your kinks not my kink and that's ok apply, just as your lifestyle choices are not my lifestyle choices and that's ok, and that includes collars, uses and meanings. I think its just a fact that people involved in bdsm are no more nice, or kind, open minded to each other than in the vanilla world.

The huge irony in all of this is, as I mentioned above, is that some people want to try and force an orthodoxy onto people in an alternative lifestyle which is the complete opposite of an orthodoxy. Maybe this is part of the human condition, kink or otherwise?

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Feb 22, 2022

I haven't seen anyone dispute that. The issue seems to be those few who don't believe a collar is anything BUT a fashion statement and a "fun and hot" accessory and complain that traditionalists are being exclusionary by hinting that collars actually used to be a fairly sacred item.

Re: Collars

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Feb 22, 2022

Extreme snip for brevity and focus:

You're always very vocal and vehement as though your word is the last that should be heard (much less considered). In YOUR world there may have been no standard or defined protocols but that does not mean that *no* one had them or adhered to them. You seem to believe that if you didn't experience something first hand that it absolutely and positively never existed - anywhere on the face of the earth.

I've been extremely careful to have never appropriated the "Old Guard" label in my descriptions of my own experiences and the folks and organized groups I've kept company with for over a quarter of century. I've used the term "traditionalist" - for lack of a better one - to express what once WERE uniformly accepted styles of presentation and protocol. I actually admire those early post WWII gay leathermen for their bravery and dedication to their chosen lifestyle and wouldn't stoop so low as to claim it as my own.

On the other hand, I've repeatedly seen - on this forum and in these blogs - those who go out of their way to sneer at and belittle those of us who dare mention our own experiences over the decades and then dare to tell us we never did have the ideals and behaviors we can personally speak of knowing on a *first hand basis*. So many are intent on demanding inclusiveness while deliberately badgering those of us whose own lifestyle experiences differ from their own. So many marginalize *us*yet angrily demand that they be unquestionably acknowledged as above reproach. The act of acknowledging differences isn't the issue. It's the sniping and denying that those who've been around more than two decades really DID mingle with a far different group than most here are accustomed to.

scarlet rose • Feb 22, 2022

Just like you see some people wearing a wedding band who are not married...

Just like you see married people not wearing wedding bands....

ButterfliesAndCuffs​(sub female) • Feb 22, 2022

As I’ve said before on this thread, I’ve worn chokers and collars for fashion and for play. Personally, I believe that collars have the meaning that you and your partner ascribe to them.

The one that actually means something to me I actually wear as an anklet. I haven’t taken it off since my Dom put it there, and I don’t intend to unless it’s an emergency of some sort or he tells me to.

What others do in their relationships have no bearing on mine. I don’t see why anyone should be concerned with what I wear and the reasons for it unless I’m his.

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Feb 22, 2022

Once again, I'm confused about why the vehemence. I've seen no one suggest that you should do anything other than what suits YOU. What I'm continually trying to point out is that the same courtesy is NOT extended to those of us who came into this lifestyle more than 25 years ago and *were* conditioned to regard the wearing of a collar as something more than a cute whim or fancy. When a few of us have mentioned that the wearing of a collar was ONCE a reliable indication of someone being owned and in a committed dynamic, we're accused of being mean and thoughtless assholes. Geebus. What IS it that allows some people to shame someone else and accuse them of being out of touch while insisting on carte blanche being extended to THEM and their own views?

ButterfliesAndCuffs​(sub female) • Feb 22, 2022

What vehemence are you talking about in my post? All I am saying is let people decide what they want to do in their own relationships. I don’t want to call anyone else out but there was a comment just recently about being pissed off about this thread because of people not placing the same importance on collars which you yourself agreed with.