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5 years ago. August 25, 2018 at 4:18 PM

Abuse can happen on both sides of the Whip. 

For this I am defining abuse as:

1) Use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse

2) treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly.

 

A lot of times when a “D” type if considered abusive it is viewed as physical/psychological abuse to the extreme. This can include rape, battery, and/or isolation from support systems and family.  Those can be obvious. But there are an infinite number of ways that abuse can happen. So how do we tell the difference between a protocol and abuse?  Or a negotiated, consensual, structured relationship and abuse?  We could say for the sake of argument, that a slave having no contact with their family as part of the consensual and negotiated relationship between themselves and their Master can actually be a healthy decision for the slave.  So would that be abuse?

After watching BDSM and couples for many years I have come to conclusion that an identifier of abuse has nothing to do with negotiation, consent, or even contractual agreements. 

It has everything to do with the end emotional product. 

Let me elaborate:

An M/s couple negotiates, consents to, and contracts that the slave has both thumbs removed.

After the procedure the slave feels and continues to feel deeply connected to their Master and their sense of slavery.  The slave goes on to serve for many happy and content years. They feel that they are able to serve better because of what they have given to their Master. 

OR

After the procedure the slave feels coerced and violated. They feel that it was a mistake and instead of feeling a connection to their Master they feel resentment. The resentment only builds. They feel that this decision only detracts from their ability to serve. 

 

Even though the act was negotiated, consented, and contracted how the people involved feel about it determines whether or not it is viewed/experienced as an abusive act. 

 

Take that scenario and replace the concept of amputating thumbs with anything else. 

The end emotional produce determines how the actions are perceived and processed. 

AND perception and processing determine what is acceptable for one and what abuse is for another. 

Eunoia​(sub female) - Thumb removal?!??
5 years ago
MasterBear​(other butch) - This was based on an actual event.
The Master was really into having their slave be dog-like and had the slaves thumbs removed.
5 years ago
Bunnie - @ MasterBear, this was an interesting read, thank you. I struggled with this concept a bit. I appreciate how you make me think :) As I was writing a response, saying that I didn’t understand, I suddenly understood what you were saying lol. I have had this discussion before, based around the concept of when it’s ok to “tap out” within an M/s relationship. In extreme examples, such as thumbs being amputated, from the discussions I’ve had, it tends to focus around the consideration of whether or not the request is coming from a place of sound mind. Is this along the lines of what you were saying?
5 years ago
MasterBear​(other butch) - Hello!
No. I am not saying that. Sound mind is a different issue.
What I am saying is that you take any agreed upon actions between M/s- for instance lets say the Master and slave negotiate, consent to, and contract a caning for punishment.
That's a common thing.
Then the Master canes the slave and the emotional outcome that the slave feels is deeply triggered,violated, and resentment. The slave feels the Master went to far. The Master was unfair. The emotional outcome is different then the one intended when everyone agreed to the caning.
My point is it isn't the negotiation, consent, or contract that makes something not abuse.
It is deeper then that. More difficult then that.
We cant just look at our actions and say- well- I negotiated and they agreed end of story.

We need to look at end product to truly see the affects of what we are doing.

Does that make sense?


5 years ago
Bunnie - Thank you for clarifying.. I see what you’re saying. It’s a really tricky one... I feel that this is one of those things that kind of falls into being a grey area, or a “feedback loop.” Very interesting to discuss, but unlikely to procure an actual outcome.
5 years ago
MasterBear​(other butch) - Depends on what outcome you are referring to.
5 years ago
Bunnie - If we go along the lines of accountability. Who is accountable? The Master is accountable because they have put in place a situation that has caused permanent, physical harm to their slave... therefore, not taking responsibility for their slave’s well-being. The slave is accountable, because in order for there to be resentment, there has to have been conflicting ideas... which suggests that they were not originally ok with the procedure taking place... and did not speak up and share that with their Master beforehand... therefore, not taking responsibility for their part within the relationship, and being honest. The person who performed the surgery is accountable because, I would think that in this day and age, there would need to be procedures in place with something as extreme as amputation, to help prevent those exact situations... therefore, they were not taking responsibility for safe practices. I think looking at everyone’s part within it, everyone was accountable. Does that make it abuse? No. It makes it a very messy, ill-communicated situation with very severe consequences.
5 years ago
MasterBear​(other butch) - Hello!

This post isn't about who is accountable. It's about re looking at how we view abuse in emotional terms instead of technical ones.

5 years ago
MasterBear​(other butch) - Hello!

I also wanted go touch on outcome. Can you expand in what you meant ?
5 years ago
Bunnie - Hello :) I guess accountability was what I was referring to in terms of outcome. However, I’m also curious as to the context that you may see it too?
5 years ago
MasterBear​(other butch) - Ah! Ok. That makes sense! For me outcome is about personal insight and understanding.
For someone to understand that even though they agreed to something that doesn't guarantee the emotional outcome.
The emotional outcome is extremely important in BDSM. So recognizing that consent doesn't mean something isn't abusive is key.
5 years ago
Bunnie - Definitely, a good point. I agree. Ok I just had the aha! of understanding what you were saying lol. Great conversation, thank you for discussing it further :)
5 years ago
MasterBear​(other butch) - Thank you for engaging ! Enjoyed it!
5 years ago

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