Do True Subs exist anymore?

Do True Subs exist anymore?

Chris Shawn​(dom male) • Nov 7, 2019

It needs to be said.

Everyone is entitled to be who they want and deserves the relationship they seek... but I'm sick of "subs" who want to re-define what it means to be submissive so loosely that they're barely submissive anymore.

If you aren't willing to give full consent, then you probably aren't with a Dom you can trust and should go find someone else.

If you think "bratty" means you are allowed to act unwilling and uninterested you aren't a submissive, at least not a very good one.

Find the master who is right for you and submit yourself fully to someone who could take advantage in the worst ways but you trust not to do so.

Then call yourself a sub.

Giving up control in the bedroom is 100% of every women I've ever been with. Just because you like a man to take the lead doesn't make you a submissive. That's obvious natural, socially accepted, and indoctrinated behavior.

I don't care who I've offended. I speak truth and you know it.

dollMaker​(dom male) • Nov 7, 2019

Actually no you dont, you speak from a position of 'your understanding' but its shallow, you centric and therefore specific to you, and not some wider truth. I will also posit that using the word 'true' also revealed your limited thinking and understanding of what submission can be and how submissives manifest their specific submissive energy, in the light of specific types, styles of dominance.

Neither dominance or submission is some sort of cookie cutter thing, this is this and this is that. Broader thinking and understanding is required, a more open mind. Of course you are free to define what you want and need and that can be as narrow as you desire, authentic to you but equally submissives can and should be authentic to what they need and want and the kind of dominance their energy will respond to. Doing so does not make them anymore or less submissive than your ideas do you a dominant.

Just because their way of being does not fit with your ideas does not make them any less genuine or authentic, just people who are not compatible and whos submissive energy does not match your needs, ideas, and your energy does not suit them. There is no such thing as true, in this case, no black and white but shades in between. Dominance and submission is a dance and finding a suitable dance partner to dance the dance with is where the magic comes about.

Chris Shawn​(dom male) • Nov 7, 2019

Re-read my post. The Re-re-read it again.

Everyone is entitled to be who they want and deserves the relationship they seek.

That doesn't entitle them to try to fit in as submissives.

They are muddying the waters trying to fall Into what is now becoming an umbrella term for any and every non-dom female in the community.

I don't like it.

They deserve their happiness and opportunity in life and the community. But the term submissive is becoming so diluted that it's losing it's value and purposeful meaning.

I'm glad for the accepting and open armed welcoming approach most people tend to have in the culture. I know what I'm saying will be recieved as an arrogant, close-minded, and unpopular view. But it's the truth. Since when are submissives allowed not to be submissive anymore. It's ridiculous.

Unwavering effigy​(sub male) • Nov 7, 2019

You're trying to define an absolute answer to a fluid definition. There is no industry standard. There is no industry definition, hence why you elaborate words like "complete submission"

In this world of ours, each individuals "terms and conditions" (at least how you are chalking it up to be) is user defined, and having this attitude of muddying waters is a really elitist mentality, but it's a sour form.

I have delved into some dark corners, and still actively seek things that don't conform to the word of safe, and while I will not find those people on this website, I dont come out of my adventures with a purist attitude.

Don't mistake my social demeanor as arguing with you, but your attitude isn't coming off arrogant, it is arrogant.

An individual is going declare themselves whatever they think they conform to, but having a post that is trying to relay a message by slapping them in the hand isn't going to teach anyone anything.

Can we most importantly remember that this adventure we are all on is supposed fun, intellectually stimulating, and exciting?
The purist attitude isn't going to bring this recreational industry back to your understanding.

Al Le Gory​(sadist female) • Nov 7, 2019

The dictionary definition of submissive does seem to be at odds with how many interpret it these days. Being a bottom is not necessarily the same thing.

It takes a lot of courage to actually submit to someone else.

Being self-centred, demanding and needy, to the exclusion of anyone else's needs and desires is not submissive. It is manipulative and topping from the bottom.

What self-respecting Dom/me wants to merely be the instrument of some so-called submissive's self-obsessed list of wants?

Solace​(dom male) • Nov 7, 2019

Mr. Chris Shawn. You have a frustration and you are airing it. Dutifully so, forums are in fact for these types of conversations, and others. I understand your concern. You desire a purist definition of a submissive. You chafe at what you see as a dilution of a meal you greatly enjoy. I think we should all acknowledge that Mr. Shawn has pointed out some irritating details. His view has value.

I however do not fall into his camp. I believe that subs are not born entirely submissive, that is a large diversion from most peoples human nature. New members are just that. New. They need time to learn and adapt to particular aspects of this lifestyle. They may learn the pleasure of some, they may not. All submissive are allowed hard and soft limits. I voice in my profile that I enjoy developing subs. I will also voice that I enjoy learning they're desires and fulfilling them. If this makes me a poor Dom than so be it, it is my single sour note to play in this orchestra and I enjoy playing as best I can. Perhaps, the conversation should equally be turned to the quality of the Doms educating subs.

I also give points to the dollmaker, this is a dance. We must find the right partners that ignite us and drive us. Each relationship is different. The dynamic is not so completely defined. I do not believe it fair to exclude new subs the right to be called a submissive because they don't fit someone else's box. Ultimately I do not believe this conversation will serve the merit of resolving this matter. I believe rather it will allow viewers to see different perspectives and decide which they fit or enjoy. To all such readers, your decision is valid and we appreciate you in the community.

OwnedByTheOcean​(masochist female) • Nov 7, 2019

I’m sorry to say I have to agree with the majority. The spectrum is vast and colorful and people will fall on different points of said spectrum. No two are alike.

Also, once trust is established, it isn’t a finite, one time decision. Trust is built every day, every interaction.

It is also worth mentioning that every submissive is, first and foremost, a person. A rigid, pre-defined vision of what you think a submissive is paints a very small box for her to kneel in. Accepting her as a person in all of her magic and flaws will open her up to being the beautiful submissive you seem to desire. The caveat being you will have to open your mind to seeing all of the wonder she possess and be able to be a strong enough Dom to adjust your tactics to help her become the extension of yourself you’d like to see.

In any situation that isn’t producing desired results, it is very easy and elementary to point a finger and assign blame to the outside party. I find it very constructive to look inward and honestly assess what I am doing to contribute to the problem. Maybe some introspection will reveal some things that you, as a Dom, can do to better your interactions. Maybe you can alter some old habits and truly lead your sub to where she needs to go.

Just my thoughts... not factual in any way...

TheChimera​(sub female) • Nov 7, 2019

Hmmm...
If I may ask--
Are you me?
Am I you?
Are you your friends?
Are you like that Dom over there?

Simple answer: No, you're not~ everyone is unique. There is no cookie cutter person, as Dollmaker so finely put it.
(Gosh, life would be so boring if people were, wouldn't it?)

I see a lot of others have made some really nice points.



Speaking from a "bratty sub's" stance on things; I will say I can understand some frustration if a sub is acting petulant, or crappy because she wants her Dom's attention. (Albeit, negative attention)
Personally; to me, this is just someone being an ass. (In some cases, I feel this is also a way of topping from the bottom. BUT, this is a hot debate for another time I think!)
If you want his attention, ASK for it. Don't act like a jerk to garner it and in the process stress your Dom out, stress yourself out, or make a fool of yourself.

My ideas of brattiness are to be cute, make my Dominant think, or make him laugh. It's never meant to be disrespectful, or to embarrass him. There's also a time and place to act silly/bratty with my Dom. If we're out in public? I am usually on my best behavior.

A prime example of what I'm talking about:
Sir: "I don't want you wearing panties with your dress today."
me: "I don't want you wearing panties with your dress today." "Yes, Sir~"
[[No panties, but I have on swim suit bottoms]]
Sir: "I don't want you wearing panties with your dress today." "That's not what I told you, my pet..."
me: "It's technically not panties, Sir~<3"
^ Next time, he's going to be more specific. "I don't want you wearing anything under your dress today."
If anything, he's going to laugh because he didn't think I'd be clever enough to go outside of the "box" think of doing that.
In lieu of this, I know some Dom's might not like it when their sub acts this way, and it's another reason why I am very thankful and fortunate my Dom is able to laugh stuff like this off. My point being; as mentioned by a couple others: Everyone has a preference, and what they're seeking be it a Dom or sub.


To YOU that's the truth. To others, it's not. That's what makes BDSM so fantastic! Everyone has ideas, wants, desires, expectations just as unique and individual as the person themselves are.
I think that's probably the biggest thing. You're placing your expectations forwards as what everything SHOULD be, because that's what YOU want/seek.
And that's perfectly ok! Just not what others may want/agree with.


With this, I'll say I have to politely disagree with you, friend. When I first met my current Dom; I didn't just throw myself at his feet and give him everything.
We started off talking about general things, then we started talking about one another; learning the other person on a baser level, then conversation developed into potential BDSM things, then with his consent and mine- we decided to try a consideration period (which we still are in currently~), and my submission is still developing even now.
I'm slowly giving him more and more power and exchanging that from me to him. It's not to be disrespectful, it's a way to protect myself. This is logical. Most people are this way. It's a safeguard.
I certainly am not comfortable handing a toy-bag to someone I don't know and going "Hit me up, literally, fam!" I want to know who the hell is holding that flogger.

Don't misunderstand me, I trust my Dominant. But, that trust was earned and still is being earned too.
I can understand your stance on "You need to have complete trust in your Dom."
For me it's almost impossible to just completely hand another person the keys and be like "Have fun!" right off the bat as soon as an agreement to a dynamic has been struck. Everyone has different events, traumas, and baggage from different things that have happened in their life. Even the happiest people have had bad things happen at some point or another. Personally, I have been through a lot of different things and trust doesn't come easily for me.


And this, right here, is exactly what I mean. Currently, I'm in the process of learning my Dom, and instead of going facefist into a potentially bad situation, be it from a breakdown of communication, or having him hit one of my scars- I'm taking my time in giving him my full submission. It'll come.
But that will come in time.


From the look of things, you've met some people who have their own expectations, wants, desires, etc. That didn't match up with your own. It happens, and I know it can be extremely frustrating.

You need to find a submissive that will pair well with you. Right now you're placing your expectations and desires as "This is the REAL way to do it. You can't call yourself a Dom/sub otherwise!"
No, I think you just haven't found what you WANT/are looking for yet.

So! Don't give up, they're out there~
Just please keep in mind that there is no "perfect" sub, just like there is no "perfect" person.
So if something doesn't 100% mesh well with you, or if she has flaws - don't just kick her to the curb because she's the square piece that didn't fit in the circular hole you're trying to fill.

Best of luck!~
-Auria

PS- I speak mostly from my perspective/point of view because I know myself best, and I don't want to presume anyone else's feelings, intents, etc~

Heart of Persephone​(sub female) • Nov 7, 2019

Then the other question should be asked. So true Doms exists anymore?

So many fake Doms wanting to bark orders and have things done their way. Want total submission in the bedroom for their desires.

Where are the Doms that are true Doms? The ones that take the time to learn and know the sub before becoming their dom. Wanting to know all about them. Not making them their toy.

dollMaker​(dom male) • Nov 7, 2019

@Lil Red Wolf very well said.

@Auria nicely stated reply