Old vs new guard

I do detest ''One TWUE WAY'' .
LOL, joking with you a bit.
Kissing aside, Bunnie, that notion can also slide over to those who s'make statements like ''To be Old Guard you have to be over 100 and gay. '' Seems to be a bit of one true way on both sides topics at times.
What do you think?

Oof. I've been watching this thread, trying to decide if I want to weigh in, and the sheer amount of misinformation in this thread compels me to.

I identify as leather and have been a part of houses/families that consider themselves influenced by supposed "Old Guard" traditions. I'll say this. Old Guard as a monolith is a myth. We all crave a history, the story of how we became us, and like many things, leather and Old Guard have been romanticized to a ridiculous degree. I'm a huge fan of Laura Antoniou and instead of interpreting them, I'm just going to paste her words in (credit below), because she says them so well. For those of you who don't know, she is a very well known and sought after educator in the scene who also writes super fucking hot books and stories. She's also been a part of old lesbian Leather houses and is all about dispelling the myths of what people believe to be "old guard".

"So when you romanticize the past of the old leather or kinky community, whether you call it old guard or old days, and you imagine it was safer, more secure, more real, simpler, sexier, at once bigger and more insular than what we have now, look around a room like this and understand that 95% of you would not have been welcome walking into a gay men’s bar in the good old days. And if you did get in and look for the keys to a mystical fraternity of honor, respect and loyalty, you are mostly likely to find …cock sucking. With or without hats, keys, patches, and certainly without rituals, unless you mistake checking for the telltale signs of an STD a ritual. If you sought a mentor, he will probably tell you which alleys, bathrooms, parks and other deserted places were more likely to be safe than filled with cops, and he’ll tell you which clinic or doctor in town will treat you for syphilis, and he might tell you the name of a hot guy he met in another city that one time." (http://lantoniou.com/leave-the-myth-take-the-cannolli/)

That's literally what Old Guard is. The old days. The days where returned gay soldiers from WWII formed motorcycle clubs with hierarchies similar to the military, so that they could safely explore their sexuality. There's nothing wrong with wanting to recreate these types of experiences, but people have established Old Guard as a paradigm, when in reality there's no right way to do Old Guard. Unless you're gay, male, old (like... 60+ at this time?), and faced a ton of persecution.

However, Laura Antoniou also says this...

"Here’s the trick though – just because something is untrue, or limited to a certain time and place and not universally accepted as truth, does NOT deny its romance or mythic power. We should by all means create rituals and styles and protocols and traditions in our little communities. These are the ways human beings interact, find connection and meaning, mark exciting and worthy experiences and times in their lives. Just OWN that we are, if not trying to re-create something that never was, actually creating something new and uniquely US. Say, “This is MY CLUB’S way of showing respect and love for community minded members. We buy them clothing and then piss all over them while they wear it. Your party is this upcoming Saturday. Bring a towel.” Say, “This is the way my partner and mentor taught me, and it was so meaningful for me, I’d like to share that experience with you.” Then get agreement/consent, and go bravely forward. Instead of saying things like “Boys must be in service!” or “Dominants must never bottom!” or “Women must always be submissive!” and sounding like a douchebag, say, “To me, boy is a state of mind and an identity which may or may not include service,” or “I prefer not to bottom myself, it doesn’t turn me on as much as being in charge of things and topping does,” and “I prefer submissive women for my partners.” Own your identity and preferences and your myths and realities and stop trying to make them into something universal or absolute." (http://lantoniou.com/on-leather-traditions-and-houses-and-other-things-people-try-to-sell-you-on/)

If some dude is saying he's "Old Guard" and has told you that these traditions date back to the good old days, and that is how you must do things... that's a red flag. Anyone influenced by Old Guard tradition would laugh in their face. I love the idea of working your way up through a house, and have at one point been someone's alpha boi after being beta for a while. This is influenced by the old ways, but we weren't Old Guard (tm). It's just like any other thing that we perverts due. There should be no absolute "true way" to do any of this.

As Wakko suggested, I believe, I recommend reading The Leatherman's Handbook or the Leatherboy's Handbook by Larry Townsend and boy Vince Andrews, respectively. In addition, I recommend Urban Aboriginals, by Geoffrey Main. Google Laura Antoniou, Guy Baldwin, Skip Chasey.

But please, for the love of God, never ever say that Old Guard and/or leather is influenced by Gor. That made my little leather heart hurt.

Hello lovely!

I too have ran into a handful of Dominants who claimed to be apart of the Old Guard. To be honest whenever I asked what that meant, none of them would produce an answer that satisfied me. I always felt as if information was missing.
The responses I typically got from these said Dominants ranged between.
“Its the old/ traditional way of bdsm”
“ You do what ever I say, no questions asked ,or you’ll be punished.”
“Very struck rules and outlines for all my submissive’s.”

Personally I felt they all wanted a Slave. Or someone to mold / control to their liking.
Now if your into that sort of thing. The statements I made above doesn’t apply to those who like that.

As for me I am not a slave submissive so those conversations didn’t go very far. I recommend like many have said above. Do some research on the topic. Or ask Dominants with actual experience to explain the differences.

Good luck! ❤️

As I just finished working out which means I am somewhat feeling primal and jocular, I will note of the entire bunch responding (definitely including me) not one of us is or ever was directly Old Guard. For the most part, we've all literally googled it (or perhaps in one or two cases heard it second hand from someone in real life at a munch or dungeon or at the grocery store . . . but doesn't even sound like any of us heard it first hand nor actually lived it). My point . . . for those who have recently claimed to actually be Old Guard, why in heavens aren't they responding to this forum post? My initial and quite aggressive assumption is that they aren't Old Guard at all.

So in summation and again returning to the original forum post, I don't know of any new guard really. I've heard of but have zero experience with Old Guard. I did use Right Guard when I was younger. Now I prefer Old Spice, which is completely different I am certain we can all agree. Even among the Subject Matter Experts in the lifestyle who chimed in above, who I do actually respect and read what they write and pay attention to it, we don't have a common consensus.

But if you've recently or ever been approached by someone claiming to be Old Guard on this site, I would ask why aren't they providing a definition and assist in our understanding? The answer is most probably they aren't Old Guard and are claiming a title. Or perhaps in some cases, may be claiming a title not understanding it fully but just figuring, "Hey, I'm in the lifestyle. I'm at least 22. I've been doing this a good few months now . . . I must be Old Guard, right?"

All the Best.

As I have been speaking to several Doms this has come up and to be honest I am still a little confused

Question is ;

what is the difference between Old Guard and New Guard Dom's?

Some like to remind me they are of the old guard which means nothing to a newbie, but I would like to know more about it please

I am only speaking for myself. I did not and do not think of Old Guard as romantic, gentle , or any of the other words you used in your post. I completely understand their beginnings and how leather folks spun off from it. I also understand how submission looked for women when they were let into the club.
I posted first to correct some misinformation, drop a link that leads to something straight and simple reading. And to post my opinion on knowing the roots of your crops...

I wouldn't believe everything the internet tells you. Talk to real Leather people who know our history. I have, at length, at conventions, on barstools, and around dinner tables. Our elders are dying out and we owe them the respect of passing down our history accurately.

In my experience, someone who comes out and TELLS you they're "Old Guard" is likely a poseur. It will likely turn out they've seen some things in porn videos and been to some play parties and think they know what the term means.

I read the Gor books as a kid, had no idea a culture had been built around them until AFTER I got into BDSM. They weren't that great, they were rip-offs of Edgar Rice Burroughs who did the genre better, made to be male teenage masterbatory fantasies, taken over and aped by ex-military types, leather people and a lot of insecure males. The genuine article reminds me of Star Trek fanatics who try to behave like Vulcans or learn to speak Klingon in their daily life.

If you like cosplay, have no other life and wanna go DEEP down the rabbit hole - possibly to some very dark places - explore Old Guard BDSM.

Otherwise find a local kink community, make friends, have some fun, play safe, sane consensual, and keep your brain on and your feet on the ground.