Openness as a challenge to finding relationship

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Jun 27, 2023

So many beautiful, real, heartfelt responses here, seems very germane to the topic to me. i'm off rotation at work now and in a position to better respond.

Looking at this for a lifetime it seems, i've tried to come up with general reasons when Guys (in my case) are not open. While this list is by no means exhaustive or universal, i often feel/think these things when i am trying to connect and encounter impasse.

1). Ignorance:
i grew up at a time and in an environment where roles for male and female were very defined, both subtly and overtly. my family, parents, were not communicators. Part of the contents of the 'closet' i built to hide in as a kid, realizing on some emotional level that i was different than i was expected to be, was books. Books became my friends. i became a voracious reader, even at elementary age. So i got a vocabulary and a sense of communication, but did not have the environment or outlet to practice actual interaction/connection or communication. i was an ignorant kid, but inadvertently educated to some degree through books.
Since my family were not communicators, i tried to read them just like books. i remember as a 14 year old getting a book (now out of publication) called "People Reading." It opened up a whole world for me, gave me some understanding about what i was already trying to do by 'reading' people, trying to figure out what they thought/felt, particularly in relationship to/with me. i was devoted to understanding, so pursued looking, listening, as part of the process of trying to 'read' people.
No doubt some of you are already seeing the challenge here. While communication is complex and largely non-verbal, one cannot "read" minds lol. i never actually thought that, but i could be presumptuous in what i thought i saw in a person. i was ignorant of the fact that "reading" is only a part of the process, equation. Hello 'mis-reading.'
i have come to believe this is pretty common among guys. i think @Musetta has some very pertinent insights in this discussion. Amongst them is the social reality that guys are often not encouraged to be open about their feelings. It's not like this stuff is taught in school.
i didn't start to grasp my own disability until i was married (to a woman). i remember getting angry (the male version of hurt, it was literally painful for me) when my former wife would not understand what i was feeling/thinking. i'd spent my life (unconsciously) largely depending on my people 'reading' skills for connection, relationship (and getting that wrong as often as right, probably more often wrong). But i also assumed (unconsciously) that was how everyone communicated. I.e., i assumed my former wife knew what i was thinking/feeling, even though i had not told her.

Such a simple thing, and seemingly obvious, but it wasn't obvious to me at the time, i had no frame of reference to compare to, it was all i knew. i was ignorant. It was embarrassing when i realized what i was doing, but it also helped me and gave me a big boost forward. Once i realized i had to actually tell people what i was thinking or feeling in order for them to know (rolls eyes at self), it was like an explosion for me. i had a pretty good foundation being a lifetime reader, i just had to learn how to voice those things. As it turns out, communication is a skill that pretty much anyone can learn, but i had to realize and come to terms with the fact that i was a lousy communicator first. Took a bit with my young ego, especially equating my ignorance with unintelligence at the time (two different things, eh? but i did not understand that then).

While my story is individual, and i may be a little less common in that i was always introspective, i don't think a lot of my experience is unusual for guys. i think a lot of guys are ignorant some vital elements when it comes to communication: self awareness and the ability to articulate what is there. Heck, the social stereotype is that guys are reasoners and women are emotional. One of the worst and most damaging social underpinnings i can think of!! i think guys often clothe their emotions in rationale to give them the appearance of reason while women are allowed and expected to be emotional beings, while reality is, we all have emotion and we all have the capacity for reason. i work as a nurse in a largely woman populated profession. i only became a nurse 12 years ago. Prior to that, i was in executive business management, a profession largely populated by men. my experience has been the women i work with are far more reasonable than the men i have worked with. i think a major reason is because women generally better acknowledge, understand and can articulate their feelings, while guys have been culturally conditioned to deny they even have them (which does not negate their reality).
sorry, this is getting long... i need to move on. i'll try to keep the other point short.

2). laziness:
i don't think this is disconnected from ignorance, and is not meant to be pejorative. It might be more accurate to say "exhaustion?" idk. i do know that before i gained some practical understanding on how to actually share my thoughts and feelings, when i was asked to do so, i'd feel instantly exhausted. i didn't know why and i sincerely wanted to comply, but i didn't know what i didn't know, so instead of sharing my thoughts and feelings, i'd buy a Hallmark card. Those days are long gone. Now if a Guy triggers my desire, i have to be careful not to tsunami Him.

3). fear:
Again, i think all three of these overlap, interconnect individually and in varying degrees in people. Being open is vulnerable. When i was married and learned to communicate more/better, i ended up passing my former wife in this area pretty quickly. On the one hand i think lots of cultures promote guys ignorance when it comes to emotional awareness and sharing. On the other hand, i think women have often ended up becoming emotional dentists (i.e., getting guys to open up can be like pulling teeth). But as we are discussing, sharing, openness, needs to have balance. i discovered early on, and it was the ultimate demise of my marriage, almost as much as my being gay was. i ended up being a lot more open than my former wife. Pretty my completely open and vulnerable. She was good at getting me to open up, and once i learned, i practiced it and got pretty good at articulating that stuff. That turned out to be more than she expected or could deal with and she was afraid to be equally open and vulnerable. She even admitted as much, but she still was unable to change that part of herself because of fear.

i think fear is an ongoing challenge to any intimate relationship that pursues and ongoing practice of openness. i think a lot of relationships also stagnate because of this. We end up type casting each other and play roles instead of continuing to be open about our changing thoughts and feelings.

I'mME • Jun 29, 2023

Musetta,
I lean towards your view. The very definition of toxic masculinity is the concept that is often taught to little boys; to not cry, to shake it off, do not talk about 'feelings', etc. There is a lady who makes tiktok vids mostly about how dangerous men are. One of lines is what are they protecting me from, a tiger, lion, ....I realize it may be her money maker but all the comments about how bad their men were. I couldn't take it anymore, so i begin to ask a few did they feel any sense of responsibility for the demise of their relationship. If one could write a blank stare ,Musetta, then thats what i had. That's been 6 months ago, and i still get women writing me something ugly. One particular nasty girl, i asked her, "Did someone have a shotgun trained on you for the wedding?" She went away to the cornfields where i wished her. (Twighlight zone episode ref)

I drifted. A lot of the complaints were centered around that their guy didnt communicate the way they wanted them to. So i asked did you ever sit down and explain this to them? You would have thought i conjured up Medusa! Lol. Some women seemed to be like minded with me, but for the most part it was a little scary.

If asked direct questions i will answer, im open but i learned that i do not need to overshare (for lack of a better word) bc there is nothing wrong with someone who feels safe and comfortable , sharing with their partner,
I would not consider a partner who doesn't share, they are like cold steel, to not be compatible with me.
As with anything , as time passed then the more we know someone.