I'mME
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9 months ago •
Feb 13, 2024
Bishop wrote: I think having a "martyr complex" is different from doing something we said we would do that perhaps we didn't want to do at the time. Everyone wants to be valued, recognized, and appreciated for doing things, even the small stuff, but does that make a person a martyr? In my opinion, we do things in a relationship because we want to give ourselves freely to our partner, we find enjoyment and fulfillment in meeting our partners needs and desires (without compromising our boundaries or limits) and our partner finds enjoyment and fulfillment in doing the same. The "martyr complex" comes in when our motives change from our partner to ourselves, when we want to beat our chest and pronounce to the world, "See how good I am"...or even yell it to ourselves. I think of combat situation as an example; A team has been ambushed and the only way out is for someone to sneak around and try to divert the enemy's fire. Does the volunteer go from the premise of doing it because it's the right thing and it's to help his buddies, or does he volunteer with the idea that he could get some medal or pat on the back? I guess for me it boils down to the person's motives.
Bishop, The martyr role can resemble many things, if someone is not around someone very much they may not recognize it. It also is usually mixed up with other personality disorders. |
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Online now
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I'mME
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9 months ago •
Feb 13, 2024
creidsinn wrote: I think that, sometimes, people think too much. I guess if a person is not happy being themselves, and seem to have a martyr complex, then yes find a way change to be happy.
However, if a person is happy as they are, and it’s hurting no one, why change? (Even if others think we are hurting ourselves.) Why must we be what others think is best? Psychoanalysis isn’t always a good thing. Some times it makes us believe we need to be ‘normal’ as defined by someone else. I’m a very self aware person; and many aspects of my personality would freak others out, however I’m happy being me. WOO HOO. WORD |
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Bishop(dom male)
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9 months ago •
Feb 13, 2024
I'mME wrote: Bishop, The martyr role can resemble many things, if someone is not around someone very much they may not recognize it. It also is usually mixed up with other personality disorders. You are absolutely correct. I was simply speaking in what I see as a basic way that we can attempt to recognize the role within ourselves and work to change that motive…if we don’t like it. |
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Literate Lycan(dom male)
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9 months ago •
Feb 13, 2024
Irrelevant Admiral wrote: If Submission is being done appropriately, there is no actual sacrifice occurring. This is because the Hierarchy of D/s dynamics is supposed to be as follows, 1: the sub's needs. 2: the dom's needs. 3: the dom's desires. 4: the submissive's desires.
What this equates to, if done correctly, is to basically always have the sub's needs met to begin with, and then always be incorporating the subs desires in with your own when looking at it from the perspective of a dom's responsibilities in the dynamic. This results in Surrender, not Submission. Good morning. I’ve been enjoying this forum post for a few days and felt it not necessarily my place to chime in so much as to listen and learn. Great perspectives. Irrelevant Admiral - in the spirit of discussion, where and who supposes the hierarchy of the D/s in the order as you indicate? I’m just wondering as I’ve never considered it in any order per se. It is a romantic notion and in saying, you now place the Dominant in the role of martyr for the cause. In my opinion, the needs of the whole outweigh the needs of the individual. The Dynamic itself as a union. If this means the sub must come first or the Dominant comes first, it is dependent upon the day of the week and the urge of the moment. Placing a hierarchy removes any importance that either party plays in my opinion or rather places an importance. Both are equally important. Further, it removes a valuable essence of the submissive in that the submissive often puts the needs of the Dominant above. “This results in Surrender, not Submission.” I’m not necessarily understanding the difference between surrendering and submission. They seem very similar in the mental frame and considering we are talking about submissives, would the term submission not seem to fit? Not trying to be obtuse, just wondering for my own education. lambsone wrote: But, is this really done from a motivation of kindness, desire to serve, love for the other? Or do we do it sometimes from a misplaced martyr complex? I think I do have a martyr complex at times if I were to be honest about it, and I generally see that as unhealthy.
Ok, to the meat of the discussion. Fascinating really. I always love reading Miki’s comments. I felt that creidsinn’s comment that sometimes people overthink things is brilliant and I like what Bishop pointed out - shifting the focus from the needs of the other to ourselves. Specifically to me, a martyr complex is someone who wants to be crucified for note. They seek out suffering and prosecution not when it’s necessary but simply because it feeds a need. (Although I agree with Bishop on his perspective, I felt the military analogy a bit off - running into danger to receive a medal isn’t bad if it’s required for the mission. I mean if it has to be done and you can receive a reward, why not? Maybe running into conflict in the hopes of being wounded so others would value you and give you a Purple Heart is on the lines of martyr? But I do understand the direction you were leaning.) I think most submissives in my opinion are not martyrs so much as they find value putting in an effort in the hopes their Dominant finds benefit. We all enjoy accolades. And in leadership, we know the importance of showing your staff or team is valued. Often we do things out of necessity or inspiration because it is the right thing, but hope to receive acknowledgement or even praise for a job well done. That is very healthy. Now, some submissives do hang themselves on the cross, pointing out “look how I suffer” in the same vein that some Dominants point out how much they give of their souls for the sake of the submissive. As I believe has been pointed out by others, when you give freely for the betterment or joy of your partner, you aren’t suffering even when you don’t necessarily “want” to do something. You benefit from the value your partner gains. And receiving positive feedback isn’t presenting yourself as a martyr. I believe there is a distinction between benefiting from your actions and martyring yourself - and it’s probably in how you wish others to see you. Believe me - there are a ton of people who currently wish to be seen as victims or martyrs - even when they inspire the action brought against them. Poke a bear and then show the scars where the bear swats them aside. The bear didn’t care to begin with and none of it was necessary. |
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lambsone
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9 months ago •
Feb 13, 2024
Great discussion LL.
When I mentioned Martyr complex I was thinking only of the down side of it, and I should have clarified that. Growing up Catholic (I'm not anymore) I generally see Martyrdom as a good thing and don't believe a true Martyr ever had a martyr complex. But I do recognize the negative aspect of this quality in myself, particularly in my past but not so much now. However it's worth making sure every so often, that it's not appearing in my relationships. One of the questions on the assessment mentioned that a person can end up with a martyr complex due to the way their mother acted. That is absolutely true I my case. One way my mother did this was a plaque on the kitchen wall of a dog house. Next to it were individual basset hounds on hooks with our names on them (there was none for her though.) If you found yourself in the dog house, you knew that you had done something to make her mad. The rest of the family stayed away from you lest they also found themselves under her wrath, until the situation blew over. I generally desire to serve from a place of positivity and seeking the benefit of someone else. But the martyr complex was something that popped into my head one day and I thought it would a good thing to bring it up for discussion as a possible negative attribute concerning submission. |
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stairwaytoheaven(dom male)
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9 months ago •
Feb 16, 2024
If I can weigh in as a Dom,
Excellent question. I too wonder sometimes if I am a martyr. Despite my dominant tenancies, I have a huge heart and a soft spot for those who need care. I think that is what makes/made me a good dom. Every Christmas I chose a family/person (random stranger) who needs help, I don't give gifts to family and friends, but rather I ask of them to help me gift someone who might not have a Christmas. Last Christmas it was a single mom who posted for a used bed for her little girl who had outgrown her crib. The offers that came made me sick (had bed bugs but they are gone, pee stains but I bleached them out etc.) My best friend owned a bedroom store... I posted to my friends... time to show your christmas spirit. We delivered new bedroom suite for this little angel. As my buddy and I delivered it to the tears and joy we found out her fridge had gone out the night before... I looked at it (handyman) nope, it is toast. We drove to the nearby used appliance store and with some not so subtle coercion, got a used fridge. On delivering the fridge, her drug addict boyfriend was there, I still delivered the fridge (as he made the weak excuse, I was in the hospital, can't work.) And I still wished them Merry Christmas... the little girl said to mom (I have a grey beard)... was that Santa Clause? Mom cried... she kicked the loser to the curb the next day. Martyr is a broad term. Follow your heart... it will never lead you astray as long as it is tempered by reason. Would I die for a cause... absolutely! As long as I believe in it unconditionally. |
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