Munches, Vetting, and Barriers to Seeking

I understand that it can be intimidating for someone on the spectrum to meet in person in casual settings. But at the end of the day you’re pursuing something incredibly intimate in a vulnerable situation. That’s already true in just a vanilla hook up. It’s cranked up to 11 in kink.

Think of a vetting and munches as all part of the process. And it’s as much for your safety and comfort as it is for any potential partner(s)

I completely agree with the OP, to be quite frank. The only reason munches are considered remotely socially acceptable is because they're a relic of an age where you couldn't meet people that were kinky without secret clubs. It'd be unthinkable to push people go to "vanilla sex groups" if they were seeking traditional relationships were kink not involved. Do munches have their place as vetting/hobbyist groups? Absolutely. But there's a ridiculous "obligation" to attend in a space that includes people like me and the OP who treat kink as an intensely personal and intimate sort of thing. I have zero interest in describing my wants and needs to a complete stranger, let alone one that I'm not attracted to. That is fucking ludicrous, I'm sorry.

I'm being more outspoken than I really need to be, for what it's worth. I have absolutely no issue with the existence of munches - I do have an issue with it being a badge of approval in many communities. Note: for filtering out creepy men, yes, it's valuable. There are other, better ways of doing that though.

I'm am sure there are instances of what you're talking about out there somewhere...but do you find that to be the norm? In my experience, it's not.

I did mention that I have rarely attended munches...maybe 3 of them in the past 6 years (and I attended several bdsm events before attending my first munch, and even already had a partner I found in the community at the time). And I have never been coerced into attending one. It's very possible I've come across some group or community that required me to jump through some hoops or attend a particular munch to be inducted in...but I would just ignore them and go elsewhere. For every one of those, there are dozens others that would not require that. And I think even kinky events will have their own mechanism for filtering out creepy men and such.

At no point in my kink journey have I gotten the impression that I had to attend munches or pressured to do specific vanilla things to be a part of the lifestyle. Is your experience different? It's possible that it's location dependent. I'm surrounded by several metro areas and more options for events than I could take advantage of, so I personally found the sort of situation you're describing to be very avoidable. But maybe it's different for you? That would be interesting to hear.

Now, there are some people I would think attending munches is a part of their process, a way to "dip your toes in and test the waters" so to speak. And of course they're fine for that purpose. Munches have their place, and they can be a great introduction for people wanting to enter the lifestyle. But it always seemed optional to me, like attending one was your choice. I've just never been pressured regarding them. Please enlighten me. I honestly missed that angle of the OP. Who exactly is pressuring people to go to munches?

EDIT: Ooooh, the OP is in Minneapolis. Is that really what the scene is like over there?

I'm sure it's more specific to communities individually rather than any larger pattern (clique vibes seem to be a universal issue, from what I've seen). That said, and this isn't meant as a "oh maledom bad" thing I assure you, but are you attending munches that are primarily for maledom/femsub scenes? I don't think it's controversial to say that that's the mainstream dynamic, so there's much less of a need to filter people out that don't fully understand where the group ideals deviate from mainstream ideals, thus, there's less need for verification of character.

Queer/femdom events seem to have significantly more issues with people that don't understand what's going on when those events are public/public-facing is a better way of putting it. So most of the cool stuff is gated by a munch or networking. You really can't just go to parties of that type, there's usually an invite list and a cover fee (if it's at a rented spot or dungeon which it usuaaally is). Maledom stuff, in my head if a dude wanders in and makes an issue there are plenty of people around bigger than him, just gets booted. That is not always the case in my/other scenarios. I'd even say it's usually worse, if someone like that doesn't feel intimidated and internally thinks they can take everyone in the room.

Feel like I'm arguing for munches by putting it like that, but again, I think there are better ways of resolving that need that don't seriously push personal-minded intimates into sitting shoulder to shoulder with dudes twice our age with poorly hidden boners just for a little social clout. I've done that, it's not that bad in the grand scheme of things, but god it's such a drag.

Fair question to ask, btw, don't intend to suggest otherwise. I'm jaded about it, can you tell? (sarcasm)

I hear ya. I had no idea about that kind of scene. But I agree with you, it does sound like a ludicrous drag.

I'd be jaded too. Hopefully you were able to rise above that stuff in your community and are in a better situation now.

Yeah, a friend of mine told me that they literally had a punch card that a large group required you to go over a series of topics in different venues. Another friend goes to bondage themed raves in an otherwise public club and they said the organizers will deny entry to people without someone to vouch for them. There is very much the sentiment of "if you don't munch or vet you're a predator and no one should talk to you." See some of the first comments as evidence.

That being said, some of the advice here has been helpful and reassuring so I found two vanilla events I might go to.

There are events that are only interested in making money, buy a ticket and attend, no one cares who you are, however some events are run by community groups and their events are essentially Private Clubs, with club like rules, and ways in - to go to those you jump through the hoops they want you to, and if you want to go, you do that. I have no issue with that, having done so at the beginning of the year to attend higher end private BDSM parties, organised by a munch event group, who required vetting or vouching, to attend their parties. I have numerous people who can vouch for me, so that wasn't an issue, and nor do I think it is one to ask people to do so, to join or attend their community group.

Thing is, and this is my experience, first hand knowledge, over the 16 or so years I am active in my local kink scene, often those that cry loudest about how unfair this is are the problem people, who feel entitled to not be vetted, follow the rules, etc, and at some point hurt people. Of course there are people who aren't dangerous who could be safe to attend stuff, but how do you figure that out, without meeting them, observing them in person, and over time?

When I first started out, I joined a community group forum that had a chat room, and from the minute you joined you were being assessed for deeper membership, you progressed through levels to the part of the site where you were open to being invited to munches, and then parties. Behaviour on the site was a very effective way to do this, sadly with Fetlife having hoovered up independent sites, and government control of the net, this method isn't really possible these days particularly when its easy to find out who owns/runs a website.

I will leave this thought, without attending events and workshops, how do you get peer to peer, or national/international level activity education? You can't and books, videos, articles online only go so far, which makes you less skilled, than someone who has, and in BDSM, the faking it till you make it attitude is dangerous and reckless.

It is often the case, yeah. I think the difference is in whether the issue someone has is with the existence of a vetting method of any kind (which neither I nor OP have said anything against), or the fact that the only available vetting method obligates being comfortable playing with strangers. The latter is what I feel is poorly addressed.

A group forum is a totally viable alternative vetting system, you've suggested exactly what I'd hope for. Look at this from my POV - if Thecage were an in-person munch, I would've been solicited by three illiterate men this week despite not being gay. On here, I can tell them to pound sand in a few seconds, but in-person, I'm 5'6''/120lbs. In that case it's a significantly more uncomfortable encounter, occurring with frequency. If I had to deal with that, I'd look for other avenues of meeting people. I will say, in some respects I think the rigidity of older protocols may have made past kink communities more formal, so I'm not saying that that sort of thing has always been as severe a problem.

I'm somewhat curious what you mean by education. Personally I've seen very little difference in knowledge attainment in BDSM vs. any other activity, some people favor in-person, others research. Safety courses are valuable but I don't think you need to go to a class to learn not to make ties over arteries, joints, and nerve passages (unrelated, but I stay away from rope/cord entirely these days for that reason).

Four*

Hi OP,

This really resonates with me and in the past have found myself asking myself these same questions. I am not on the spectrum but large social gatherings are not my forte and I am not trying to expand my social network either. For me, being a submissive is an aspect of who I am, one part of a very large picture.

I like my social circle small, intimate, and with people I trust that I have carefully cultivated. The work I do requires me to attend social events and be around people 24/7, so I know my boundaries and limits. When in large social gatherings outside of work, I cannot get comfortable enough to have a deep meaningful conversation with someone and I don't do surface level, especially around things like sexual interests and desires. There's too much going on, too many distractions,I am constantly on my guard, and a wallflower.

I prefer to meet people organically if possible, takes that initial attraction question out of the equation, because you either vibe with their energy or you don't. That being said, with my busy work schedule, I have definitely come to appreciate meeting people online as well. For me meeting in person (usually within 2 weeks) of talking with the person, is a must for me. While I can certainly learn much about someone from talking to them via text, voice, or FaceTime, there are nuances to someone's energy, personality, body language, smell, and quirks that digital communication puts a filter on. If my intention is to meet people I want to be intimate with mentally and physically, they need to be the whole package.

How I show I am a trustworthy person is I approach people online and in person the same way; with kindness, curiosity, sincerity, and authenticity. I don't think it's wrong to abstain from munches or local vetting, but be smart, educate yourself before doing something or allowing someone to do something to you that you're unfamiliar with and pace yourself.

If you have one or two people you are friends with that share an interest in kink, and you would like to explore social gatherings with a kink lean, perhaps try going to something something like fetish flea market where there's less pressure to be "vetted". You can explore different shops and if you want, meet people a bit more organically, though not a requirement, and attend workshops, see demonstrations, etc. It's definitely still a bit anxiety provoking because of its size, but I found that felt less pressurized than going to a local community munch.

You'll find what works for you OP.