Protocol

Fudbar​(dom male){❤️❤️❤️} • Nov 12, 2018

With all this talk of capitalization, I wonder if perhaps we should distinguish Protocol from protocol; I think Sav hit on the distinction in her post.

Protocol is a specific set of rules. Rules that have been well, I'd say corrupted, kinder might be to say evolved, but none the less, specific and different from 'dictionary definition' protocol. The latter is nothing more than Sav's definition; rules, rituals, routines.

I'm hesitant to speak on Protocol because what I know of it comes from my formative BDSM exposure within the gay leather culture, and as cis het 'TNG' that really feels out of my lane. I was really hoping for more OG gay leather folks on here to speak on it, but haven't met any yet. The ones I knew were wonderful friendly folks who were happy to share their experiences and answer my silly noob cis het questions and would no doubt do the same here.

(Having said that, I think they might not; there was a strong 'men only' component to it and discrimination there too. MB has hinted at this in some of her posts about bad experiences in her local community..)

I will say this much, because the point hasn't been made here; Protocol existed for real, practical safety reasons. The scene was underground and strangers played with strangers. Strict rules and vouching/vetting are simply safety precautions. You could go to a new city or lend/order a slave to a stranger secure in the knowledge that everyone played by the same strict rulebook and the punishment for breaking rules was severe and could mean being banned from the community for life. Few would risk that.

With corruption/relaxation of Protocol and the community as a whole coming out into the open, pure Protocol got lost. Good or bad isn't my place to say, but it was a new world. One could play and find partners and events without having to be vetted or follow the rules, and folks developed other ways to stay safe.

Anyway, back to where we are now. OG pure Protocol is only a small part of the scene. Might as well be a fetish, and from that perspective, insisting on strangers following it in the larger community or online is about as appropriate as a foot fetishist coming into a chat room and demanding everyone show them their feet. Sorry dude, I did not consent to role playing your kink. Do it with a partner, but don't drag strangers into it.

If you want to capitalize D, etc...that's a writing style. You can't demand it anymore than I could demand everyone follow the New York Times style guide.

As for Dom vs dom...Ala, that's gatekeeping and your own personal way of insulting those you dislike. It ain't Protocol or protocol. Harsh, but true. Don't get it twisted.

As for protocol.. it's another subject entirely, and perfectly acceptable in a relationship. Make rules, routines etc that enhance bond and intimacy, but the same rules apply; do it yourself, but no one outside of your relationship consented to following it. Demanding it is rude and a basic violation of consent.

MasterBear​(other butch) • Nov 12, 2018

@Savida
@thinkingbig

Interestingly enough-
Social protocol is more geared towards keeping Dom/mes in line then anything.


@alawey
@thinkingbig

I know that current many ppl call themselves old guard.
In my opinion--- that is disrespectful to BDSM history.
Old guard were the gays that returned from the war.
Most died in the AIDS epidemic.
Those left are easily in their 70s.
But - that is my bias.




In my experience Protocols need to connect directly to a persons sense of Dominance and submission. They need to come from the crotch. Or they are pointless excersizes.

MasterBear​(other butch) • Nov 12, 2018

@Fudbar


This is Brilliantly written.

Dead on.

I have a beloved friend who said he finally figured out leather folk-- their kink is rules.


Lol

dollMaker​(dom male) • Nov 12, 2018

Its vital to keep in mind that there was no 'one way' regarding this and variations from area to area. Its easy to buy into the mythos of Leather culture, pre net, as being one seamless culture back in the day, with the same rules, guides etc, a sort of Leather universality and according to many Leather Men educators that simply wasn't the case.

Guy Baldwin among others has written a fair bit about this. Here is a link to some of his articles on Leatherati https://leatherati.com/tagged/guy-baldwin

Fudbar​(dom male){❤️❤️❤️} • Nov 12, 2018

Doh! I meant to put in a North American regional disclose there, but forgot during composing. Apologies to the old world and Asia..

MasterBear​(other butch) • Nov 13, 2018

@Dollmaker


Its important to recognize here that it wasn't just gay leather men.

In fact I looked at my post and smacked my head

Leather Women have just ad significant a role in old guard as the men did.

It wasn't uncommon for separatist lesbian communities to have their own BDSM protocols and rules.


When the AIDS epidemic hit, the lesbians carried that history forward.

alawey​(sub female){(OWNED BY } • Nov 13, 2018

Ummmm.....fud you said

" As for Dom vs dom...Ala, that's gatekeeping and your own personal way of insulting those you dislike. It ain't Protocol or protocol. Harsh, but true. Don't get it twisted. "

I thought long and hard on if I was even going to reply to that dig.
But as I stated it was just my view point which was what asked for ...our on thoughts on it.

Now I don't feel that I am twisted or that my thoughts on it are twisted. Nor is it something that I feel is a personal dislike to anyone specifically.
A wise Dom told me years ago that just because a person buts Dom by their name that doesn't make them a Dom.

And honestly you can take that as how ever you want. But it seems to me that lately anytime a sub ( let's be honest here,), anytime I have anything to say. You seem to find fault in it. Yet what I state is always said as my thoughts and or opinion only.

So how can I be wrong in my thoughts or believes if they are mine alone. And I have share my thoughts with my Dom and he doesn't have a problem with them nor does it seem that other Dom/me do seeing that there are those that click the like button, or leave good comments in reply .Or ask why I feel or think this way by asking me to explain my point of view.

And honestly you can think/feel however you choose about or towards me.. You aren't my Dom so I don't need to answer to you. Although if you want to have a responsible respectful chat about something I would have no problem with that

MasterBear​(other butch) • Nov 13, 2018

@alawey

No disrespect meant - here are my 2 cents.


It is a personal choice on whether or not you recognize someone's identity.

I may not see someone as a Master or a slave but I'm not going to disrespect their identity--- OUT LOUD.


I prolly will in my head.

But I have had ppl say to me - I'm not a lesbian, prove it.


So I qualify those things the same way.

I am not in service to them- they are not in service to me. So I don't care how they identify.

But- I'm not going to say they arent their identity through direct or inference.


So I see fuds point.

SchrodingersDinosaur​(switch female){N/a} • Nov 13, 2018

Ooh ooh ooh! *waves hands excitingly* not trying to totally hijack the thread but I'd like to add something to MB's excellent most recent post...was just talking with someone today about a similar type of slight. I respect there are folks totally protocol and rule driven, I'm definitely more primal and less rule oriented. I do tend to, as MB mentioned, cap the D and lowercase the s. Also cap Switch usually, perhaps because I'm leaning Domme now maybe, not sure though...that was where I was going though, as Switch and bisexual, I understand that full Dom/Dommes or subbies may not 'get' the fact I like both roles, luckily I have not received any direct criticism about it but I have heard of others being slurred (unless I was just being daft, I don't always read between the lines...so if you were trying to insult me and I didn't get it, I'm sorry!), I have however personally dealt with women that point blankly said I was 'fake' and just playing or undecided because I claim to find both men and women attractive. That isn't fair and is hurtful. It's gatekeeping in the same way and I wish it didn't happen. Okay...off soap box...talk amongst yourselves again! ?

SchrodingersDinosaur​(switch female){N/a} • Nov 13, 2018

Ooh ooh ooh! *waves hands excitingly* not trying to totally hijack the thread but I'd like to add something to MB's excellent most recent post...was just talking with someone today about a similar type of slight. I respect there are folks totally protocol and rule driven, I'm definitely more primal and less rule oriented. I do tend to, as MB mentioned, cap the D and lowercase the s. Also cap Switch usually, perhaps because I'm leaning Domme now maybe, not sure though...that was where I was going though, as Switch and bisexual, I understand that full Dom/Dommes or subbies may not 'get' the fact I like both roles, luckily I have not received any direct criticism about it but I have heard of others being slurred (unless I was just being daft, I don't always read between the lines...so if you were trying to insult me and I didn't get it, I'm sorry!), I have however personally dealt with women that point blankly said I was 'fake' and just playing or undecided because I claim to find both men and women attractive. That isn't fair and is hurtful. It's gatekeeping in the same way and I wish it didn't happen. Okay...off soap box...talk amongst yourselves again!