Phanes(dom male)
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6 years ago •
Nov 15, 2018
To put it simple terms,
D's take in consideration of their submissive's well being and safety. Abusers DON'T. They are simply out to cause the victim pain, hurt, emotional destruction, de-humanization; all for THEIR need to feel superior and take out their anger on another. |
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Online now
MasterBear(other butch)
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6 years ago •
Nov 15, 2018
@Bunnie
I completely agree. I think where my head is going is looking at coercion. |
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Bunnie
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6 years ago •
Nov 15, 2018
MasterBear wrote: I agree with all of this.
However, those are from the lenses of a healthy dynamic. I'm saying that D types that are into abuse---- have a different modus operandi. And - That those things can seem legit. But coercion is a different game. Ok- so a D type with a young newbie sub. The subs initial desired degree was a masters in forensics. Over time the sub changes her major to psychology. Both decreasing their overall time in college and the intensity of the classes . It just so happens that the D type is a psychologist. Talk to the s type. They say they choose that. But did they? Or did the subtle yet powerful communication from the D type coerce this? Keep in mind that the last three s types dropped put of college. Also keep in mind that the s type has started dressing and presenting as the D types last 3. Then take this concept and apply it to protocol. The s type says they agree, but do they really ? Or are they being manipulated by a person who uses bdsm as an abusive tactic because bdsm VALIDATES certain things. I'm talking here beyond consent. The grey areas. I think what is often glossed over is the fact that yes, bdsm is a form of manipulation. But ultimately, in order for it to work... all parties have to believe in it. Someone can tell someone else what to do... but if that person doesn’t believe in the process involved or the concepts behind it, then it falls on deaf ears. This whole lifestyle only works if those involved believe in what it is. No vanilla person would allow someone on the other side of the world to tell them that they “will” wear a butt plug to work with no panties, every second day of the week... whilst balancing oranges on their head and singing lullabies. And yet a submissive will do that for their dominant... because they believe in what is happening. Perhaps this is the grey area you speak of. However, this is also the area where the submissive’s own responsibility, not only towards themselves, but towards their Dominant, and the relationship, resides. It’s their responsibility to tell the dominant if they’re actually allergic to oranges. I agree, it’s definitely a grey area... and an interesting topic. I look forward to seeing what other responses come up 
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MasterBear(other butch)
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6 years ago •
Nov 15, 2018
@Phanes57
I agree. What I'm trying to mine here is the grey area. What parts of Bdsm are not so clear. We are used to defining this. I am pushing to look at the grey areas. And perhaps how easy it is to slip into them ourselves |
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MasterBear(other butch)
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6 years ago •
Nov 15, 2018
As a community- we are in a place of having to explain and defend.
Defining abuse through the basis of consent is one of our go tos. But---- Someone can consent and still be abused. |
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Bunnie
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6 years ago •
Nov 15, 2018
@ MasterBear,
“Someone can consent and still be abused.” I’m very curious about this. Who determines that it’s abuse? |
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Phanes(dom male)
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6 years ago •
Nov 15, 2018
@MB
I can perhaps see where you are going with this. I believe the grey area you may be asserting here is where a submissive may give consent to an act just to please the One she is with regardless of her true feelings. Feeling she has no choice due to fear of losing that person, not believing they are worthy to be treated better due to low self-esteem, or perhaps being new to the lifestyle and not educating themselves thoroughly enough as to know what act they are being told to do is not the true essence of what a D/s relationship is meant to be? Anyone who takes such advantage of someone in this way is not a respectable dominant, he is an abuser of the one to whom he is with. |
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Bunnie
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6 years ago •
Nov 15, 2018
@ Phanes, in my opinion, it is the responsibility of the submissive to communicate these things with their Dominant. I understand it may not be done, out of fear... I’ve done this myself many a time. However... that doesn’t shift the blame to the Dominant. I agree, it creates a grey area.
“where a submissive may give consent to an act just to please the One she is with regardless of her true feelings. Feeling she has no choice due to fear of losing that person, not believing they are worthy to be treated better due to low self-esteem,” ...all of these scenarios, in my opinion... are lying by omission. Obviously that is a harsh way of looking at it, but as I see it, truth nonetheless. The only situation that stands out to me as being different is: “or perhaps being new to the lifestyle and not educating themselves thoroughly enough as to know what act they are being told to do is not the true essence of what a D/s relationship is meant to be”... a new person who is unaware. I guess this kind of helped clarify for me what is meant about the situation of “Someone can consent and still be abused,” and how that may occur... A breakdown in communication. |
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MasterBear(other butch)
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6 years ago •
Nov 15, 2018
@Phanes
YES That is exactly what I was looking for. @Bunnie Okay to address a couple of things here. The first question of whose emotions are used to determine if it is abuse are the people that are involved. This can be anybody .The top can decide that they consented to something and then afterwards be completely emotionally not okay with what is just happened, so can the bottom. To be clear here I am not talking about what people need to "do". I am not talking about accountability. I am talking about discussing the greater areas of BDSM such as coercion that are often times validated by social structure So is it the submissive's responsibility to call foul? Sure it is but you're assuming a couple of things. Number one ---assuming that the submissive has insight to begin with. Number ---- assuming the submissive has an idea of what a healthy relationship would be like to balance off their thoughts and expectations with. Number three and this is the biggie here there is an assumption that a dominant wants to hear it and supports it Abusive dominants that have been doing it for a long period of time have developed a manipulative set of skills that are very impressive. They also know quite frankly who to Target. The dominant I mentioned specifically targets new Young submissives with a questionable sense of self, minimal confidence, and an absent support base. Having talked to the current submissive before----they see everything that is happening as something that they are consenting to. My question becomes give this submissive time what will the feelings become? I know that the idea that abuse is based on emotions can be very volatile. Because we do a lot of talking in BDSM of what makes people safe? How do we keep safe? What do we do to and for each other to help ensure safety? It's difficult to think that all of that boils down to what somebody internally processes. |
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Fudbar(dom male){❤️❤️❤️}
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6 years ago •
Nov 15, 2018
MasterBear wrote: The dominant I mentioned specifically targets new Young submissives with a questionable sense of self, minimal confidence, and an absent support base. So coyote in the field and you're debating how the sheep should feel about it on an ongoing basis?!? Be an llama. Get the fucking coyote out. http://alpacasofmontana.blogspot.com/2013/02/alpaca-protection-guardians.html?m=1 |
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