Trivial pursuit, S & M version.

dollMaker​(dom male) • Jun 14, 2019

End of the day, sub, slave, bottom, service bottom, switch, kinkster, fetishist, dom, top, service top, master all have a right to withdraw consent, and at any time. To put out the idea that being in anyone of those positions, or being in any kind of a dynamic invalidates being able to say no, is dangerous. Always say no, red if you have to regardless of what anyone else says, if you have to, do it, simple as that.

hiraethslave​(sub female){unavailabl} • Jun 14, 2019

Good evening,
*waves to Bunnie and Alawey*
I've not faced much backlash for my own identification as a slave hearted submissive.
The question posed was:
"You identify as a slave. You have been with your master / owner for a long time, and feel all the deep and complex emotions that you would expect to feel. One day your master tells you to do something that you really badly do not want to do. You explain why you don't want to do it, you beg, etc, but he is adamant. Would you do it? "
Yes, i do it. If I've gotten so deeply involved with trust and respect with this Dominant that I have dropped the submissive part to my title and accepted Him as my Master, then he has PROVEN to me that i am safe in His hands. I may express my personal preference or desire against said thing... but if He insists, then He has a darn good reason.
How do I know?
Because I'd never give ownership of myself who is petty enough to put me in a situation or distress purely for an ego trip *eyeroll*.
Because if we have gotten to THAT point in our relationship, then He would never risk breaking my trust for something worthless, it would never BE a point of trust, it would be a point of growth.
i have been in situations very much like this and sometimes it went well, and sometimes it went badly. Sometimes I requested permission to discuss before complying, sometimes I asked to discuss afterward. Whatever the case is, He never needed to be TOLD that the thing He was asking me was emotionally, physically, or otherwise difficult. By the time He was Master, He knew me inside out, upside down, and backwards.

To give credence to what Alawey said: if we are discussing a Gorean M/s relationship, it would be a matter of personal honor to know His slave well enough to know exactly what that difficulty would be. She would not even need to explain. There would not be a time or place for disobedience, or hesitation. a girl may beg to be excused, but the second time the command is given it is obeyed. period.

I do not identify as Gorean, though I have some experience with it. So for myself it simply revolves around the title itself. If He is Master, that is IT. No more need be said. Either I trust Him or I do not. There is no other question. **disclaimer** YES, a slave has limits, but that is why I identify as a slave hearted submissive, until and unless that need for limits disappears, THEN He is Master.

I do not recommend this lifestyle choice as good and right for all.

Bunnie • Jun 14, 2019

@ hiraethslave, *waves*

you so perfectly and eloquently stated exactly what I couldn’t, thank you

“If I've gotten so deeply involved with trust and respect with this Dominant that I have dropped the submissive part to my title and accepted Him as my Master, then he has PROVEN to me that i am safe in His hands.”

and this...

“he has PROVEN to me that i am safe in His hands. I may express my personal preference or desire against said thing... but if He insists, then He has a darn good reason.
How do I know?
Because I'd never give ownership of myself who is petty enough to put me in a situation or distress purely for an ego trip *eyeroll*.
Because if we have gotten to THAT point in our relationship, then He would never risk breaking my trust for something worthless, it would never BE a point of trust, it would be a point of growth.”


I think what is often confusing is that many put the same “relationship” characteristics of D/s onto M/s. An example of a rather significant difference... it may take a Master years before he accepts a slave as his. The Master of the Leather Community where I once lived would observe and get to know anything and everything about a slave who desired to join their family... for years. The prospective slave then MAY be put on probation for a year before even being considered to go into His Household. No exceptions. He needed to know that what that person was presenting was who they truly were... and vice versa. Also that it was what they both truly wanted. This lifestyle, when done seriously, is done with mindfulness, however that requires a lot of hard work and willingness by everyone involved.

The people who live this lifestyle seriously, take it very seriously. They mean no limits. However, as stated above, no limits doesn’t translate as free will to inflict harm. Every Master I have come to know and respect are more than open to proving they’re worthy of such responsibility.

Something else I’d like to point out that I think is often overlooked in the limits conversation that often comes up around M/s, is that an abuser isn’t going to care if you have limits set in place or not because they’re an abuser... they will just plough right on through and harm you anyway, because they have a very different agenda to those who cherish this lifestyle.

@ Justme26,
I was referring to you being a Dom (not a sub), and trying to clarify that, however that seemed to backfire... oops lol. My apologies.

Bunnie • Jun 14, 2019

@ Justme26,

“I think that the point of my question was to find out more about how a d/s and an m/s relationship and how clear cut the difference is?”

Something I have come to realise is that for some the difference is as clear as day vs night... yet still somewhat difficult to explain. Much like trying to explain kink to a vanilla person... if it’s simply not their thing, no amount of explaining will make them “get” it.

I think oftentimes those that are confused around it are simply confused because it’s not for them... or their sources are porn... or sites where it’s not prominent enough for well rounded input and information, so often are misinformed through fear and ignorance.

Justme26 • Jun 15, 2019

@Bunnie.

Wow, amazing. Lets just say that has given me a lot to think about. Thanks. S

MasterBear​(other butch) • Jun 17, 2019

The s type needs to pack up tjier shit and leave.

The M type needs to self evaluate needs versus damage.


Even If there is a cnc or consent was previously discussed as not needed negotiated policy in place then the s type needs to seriously consider emotional, psychological, and mental damage before making thier choice.

The M type needs to also seriously consider what it means to pick up the pieces of a broken slave.

TheTearMiser​(sadist male) • Jun 17, 2019

Danm this turned into a shit show quick didn't it...

Bunnie nailded this one. The word SLAVE means someone who has WILLINGLY surrendered their right to say NO.

Might I direct you to my blog where I wrote a whole ass thing on this....

https://thecage.co/blog/userblog.php?blog_id=10964&postid=17132

dollMaker​(dom male) • Jun 17, 2019

Everyone has a right to say no, even if once they may have consented to that. Essentially we are talking consent no consent, but that is based on consent, and consent that can be reversed.

Slave is a construct, a suspension of disbelief, (as is most BDSM) as there is no such thing as an actual slave ( in this context) its only real as long as both parties want it to be and once they don't, they don't. Once consent is reversed, as it should be, should be allowed to be, if needed, that construct, that suspension of disbelief either pauses or stops altogether. This isn't a hard concept to get, I just don't understand why people are pushing a dangerous model, well you agreed to be a slave you dont have a right to say no no more. That is an abusive charter pure and simple.

Being a slave is not legal, no one can stop you saying no, and if they do try walk away, and if they try to stop that, get the authorities involved.

Bunnie • Jun 17, 2019

@ dollMaker,

How is it that your beliefs you’re putting forward here are not considered kink shaming?

Stating that M/s is “a dangerous model.”
... and who’s “pushing” it? It’s merely people who actually know about the lifestyle coming forward and trying to explain it (which always somehow seems to end with having to defend our credibility as people because this is the lifestyle we choose to participate in).

dollMaker​(dom male) • Jun 17, 2019

I am not kink shaming, where did I say its not a valid expression of peoples desires and wants, needs? Nowhere. What I did say and will always say is that consent can always be reversed whenever and wherever, and no one, no label, should ever prevent that. That is all I have said.

Is advocating for free reversal, ability to reverse without consequence, to say no in any kink dynamic, including M/s kink shaming? Certainly not. Telling people, pushing an idea that people can't say no, reverse consent because its an M/s dynamic, that is a dangerous model. Thats is what I said, I did not say that M/s is not valid, but M/s preventing the ability to say no, reverse consent once given that is dangerous in my view.

How is any of that open to debate by any right thinking person.