dollMaker(dom male)
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2 years ago •
Jan 30, 2022
When people try to sell the concept that bdsm is all about the dom, that the dom has total and complete control, that a subs needs, wants and desires, how they feel, their limits, what they would like to experience, don't want to experience is irrelevant in favour of what the dom wants, the dom is always right, yes you bet I am going to try and counter that. That is abuse not bdsm.
If you think that that model of bdsm is valid...... What I said was aimed at those who might try to do that, not that it had occurred on this thread, not yet anyway. |
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Online now
tallslenderguy(other male)
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2 years ago •
Jan 30, 2022
Great conversation, wishing i was not constrained by time... gotta go to work in 10 minutes.
To me, 'topping from the bottom' is more of an attitude than anything else. i think it's particularly easy to come off as doing so in written communication. Since written words lack auditory tone and visual cues, it leaves out a huge chunk of "communication." So easy for the reader (on either side) to add their own sounds and cues to what they read. i try to put those things in what i write, and often over state or write, phrasing the same thing differently, trying to find the other persons language. Doesn't always go over great. i find most the guys i encounter want simple and concise, the problem i encounter with "concise" is that voice/tone thing. One thing i find hardest to convey, even if i prequalify what i am doing, is when i am giving feed back. i tell any potential relationship up front that i believe compatibility is key and a big part off communication is identifying our common needs/wants. If i have a need/want that He does not have, i'd rather go without than have a quid pro quo arrangement. And vice versa. So communication, to me, is about finding if we have enough common need/want to build a relationship on. Personally, i only want to give information about how i feel or thing, or feed back, never correction or instruction. |
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Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker}
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2 years ago •
Jan 30, 2022
dollMaker wrote: When people try to sell the concept that bdsm is all about the dom, that the dom has total and complete control, that a subs needs, wants and desires, how they feel, their limits, what they would like to experience, don't want to experience is irrelevant in favour of what the dom wants, the dom is always right, yes you bet I am going to try and counter that. That is abuse not bdsm.
Actually, I do NOT think that the model of the dom being the "be all and end all" in any relationship is valid. I've had past experience with a few people though, who DO try to gatekeep conversations by including a hint of "if you don't agree with me then *you're* a problem." Thanks for clarifying your stance.
If you think that that model of bdsm is valid...... What I said was aimed at those who might try to do that, not that it had occurred on this thread, not yet anyway. |
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tallslenderguy(other male)
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2 years ago •
Jan 30, 2022
dollMaker wrote: When people try to sell the concept that bdsm is all about the dom, that the dom has total and complete control, that a subs needs, wants and desires, how they feel, their limits, what they would like to experience, don't want to experience is irrelevant in favour of what the dom wants, the dom is always right, yes you bet I am going to try and counter that. That is abuse not bdsm.
If you think that that model of bdsm is valid...... What I said was aimed at those who might try to do that, not that it had occurred on this thread, not yet anyway. To me, this understanding is the distinction between force vs submission. The more substantial the sub, the more profound the act of submission. To me the whole point is the ‘handling’ and evoking the desire to submit. |
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tallslenderguy(other male)
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2 years ago •
Jan 30, 2022
dollMaker wrote: When people try to sell the concept that bdsm is all about the dom, that the dom has total and complete control, that a subs needs, wants and desires, how they feel, their limits, what they would like to experience, don't want to experience is irrelevant in favour of what the dom wants, the dom is always right, yes you bet I am going to try and counter that. That is abuse not bdsm.
If you think that that model of bdsm is valid...... What I said was aimed at those who might try to do that, not that it had occurred on this thread, not yet anyway. To me, this understanding is the distinction between force vs submission. The more substantial the sub, the more profound the act of submission. To me the whole point is the ‘handling’ and evoking the desire to submit. |
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I'mME
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2 years ago •
Sep 7, 2022
dollMaker wrote: Honest frank communication is never topping from the bottom, though controlling types, abusers, will seek to hoodwink a newbie into thinking they have no right or ability to communicate their feelings and thoughts regarding activities they do, or the dynamic. These types of so called doms will use the, this is topping from the bottom, you are not a ‘real’ sub to shut that down, disenfranchise any discussion, also use the this is real bdsm, how I want it, anything else is fake, and wanting to talk shows you don’t understand this and are a failure as a sub/bottom. This type will prey on newbies, and often try to isolate them by using the you must ask my dom permission to talk to me so they can prevent any education or opinion coming along that might challenge their abusive regime.
Topping from the bottom, my understanding is a phrase used to describe a situation when a sub/bottom demands and dictates the precise things to be done during a scene, blow by blow. It has always been put across in a negative way, to create a mind set, in some people, where it simply isn’t ok or acceptable to offer feed back during, after a scene, on the relationship, that it undermines the dom/top, and it simply doesn’t. Giving feedback is important, and should be freely able to be given, a vital tool in any sub/bottoms exploration safely of the lifestyle and activities, and a dom/tops. How can the person providing the activities, creating the dynamic do so without understanding the needs, desires and things enjoyed, not liked etc if they don’t permit feed back to be given, if frank, honest discussion is shut down. Communication is always needed, throughout a dynamic but in particular early on, so that both parties can fully understand each other, figure out what is needed, what is safe. When I introduce new activities to a person, I go through it like its a 101 teaching class, use a feedback system re intensity, 1 to 10 to guage what is liked, what is heading towards being too much. I ask loads of questions, and make sure I understand, and know exactly what is being enjoyed. Without this communication approach how can I know what is best for that person? I can’t I need, and bdsm dynamics, activities need this level of communication to work and be safe and mutually enjoyable. Please note that, mutually enjoyable, and fulfilling. Those that say, even in TPE situations, that this sort of bottom to top communication is topping from the bottom are in my view abusers and fantasist, selfish me first people, the sort of people that will emotionally and physically hurt a sub/bottom and as long as they get what they want, that is all that matters. These people are best avoided and what they try to sell as ‘real bdsm’ is in fact an abusers charter to hurt people. And as a final though, if one is a pro dom/domme, being paid to create exactly what the client wants needs, the only way is to be given precise, exact info to do so, even during an ongoing scene. Thats hardly a negative either, surely the client going away with a big smile on their face and feeling they got exactly what they wanted is the pros goal, as it is the lifestyle dom/domme. I think its time for topping from the bottom to go as a phrase, to be replaced with a less stigmatising, shutting down one. What thoughts do people have regarding that. Worth a discussion. Of course I suspect the one twue, only way brigade, the dom is king and decides all brigade will not like this, try to piss on it, and of course shut discussion down. doll maker, In society when people start deleting, erasing, cancelling bits and pieces pieces from lexicons, stories, books [the entire book] in history, etc, well those people become The Man, I do not want The Man or anybody else deciding what I get to learn about, study, figure out how bad this must have been for people to either suffer from, endure. This all sounds dramatic [I can not help it, my strong suit was in fiction/nonfiction writing back when, cough, cough] Topping from the bottom is not just for D/s dynamics. [People who top and bottom is where it the phrase comes into play. Another discussion topic. What one Dom, Master , Owner, may consider topping there would be the same number across the room who through the work, building trust, working on communicating [not just in a scene, but at vanilla activities, trust building activities [not in a scene], know the intent of their sub, they have learned the heart, mind, the whys of why they think the way they do. They will know if their sub/slave is topping from the bottom, or something completely Subs in general, of course their str exceptions to everything, I hope that everyone reads that so they know that I know it, that's why I typed it, but for this bit of my thoughts we are talking most subs/slaves want to please their Dom, Master, Owner. / What topping from the bottom could really be A misunderstanding of what their Dom wants [communication issue]. They are anxious or fearful [stop and communicate, WHY]. They may have something on their mind . They may not feel well and it comes out this way. I'm sure everyone could add to this list but the important thing is if something looks like topping from the bottom [and the Dom knows their sub like they should] then they will know it may look like TFTB, they something else is really going on, Doms who are inexperienced, abusive, do not know their subs, or just do not care enough to find out the real issue that is presenting as TFTB [because most subs want to please, right? Yes] wimsy grow into a Dom, Master, Owner like those I described above first, but many self-described Doms, Masters, Owners are really just people who are into kink , play on the weekends, or they play mind games which hurt everybody all around. I include self-described subs, slaves who are really just folks that like kinky fun , which is different from what is meant when someone says living the lifestyle, into the lifestyle. So I would not want any words or phrases to disappear bc certain people are offended. People could work on understanding and educating, and listening, learning and communication techniques so that TFTB is just a phrase instead of something to tell at submissives abou. The Lifestyle is not a word for kinky, BDSM, and people who enjoy those things are just kinky folks who enjoy some fucked up shit. Ad long as we all agree that it's what we enjoy in the scenes and that that is not how er think or are in regular life, great a word to describe Power Exchange dynamics of which there are several. |
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MasterBear(other butch)
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2 years ago •
Sep 7, 2022
In my opinion the concept of " topping from below" is an idea that was thought of by D types to remain unchallenged as they do inappropriate things. Non negotiated things. Things that they know are triggering.
The simple truth is to remain in communication means there has to be back-and-forth between whoever is the top and whoever is the bottom. If the top identifies that as topping from below then that cuts off the conversation. Don't play with them. |
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