New and needing advice!

FabSeverus​(dom male) • Mar 16, 2018

I didnt meant there was a legal enforcement to oblige following the contract.
I dont want to go into details, but lets say a party change their mind....or dispute come along.

Dumbledore​(dom male) • Mar 17, 2018

But perhaps we should go in detail - I'll make this very much about the original intention of the OP as well.

OK, so asteria and I _do_ have a contract. A pretty nice one if I say so myself, but then that's not surprising as we're both geeks and we enjoyed writing it. We're both fully aware it has no legal meaning whatsoever when push comes to shove, but it was intense to write it, and even more intense to officially sign it.

And I think here's the key. We did not make this contract when we were completely new to each other. We had talked for quite a while and we both knew this was what we wanted. The act of writing it deepened that bond, and having this contract to both of us I think feels equally strong as a symbol as her having my collar. It was an opportunity to explore how far we wanted to take this in a way. When you write down that someone is your property and has no alternative then to obey you; that might not be legally binding, but it does make you think long and hard about it. And that's the strength and purpose of such an exercise I believe.

The flip side of the coin is that - if anything ever were to happen - this contract means exactly zero to anyone but us. If asteria would turn away and complain to the authorities for example, me having a contract that says I'm allowed to beat her, isn't going to do me any good. If there is an accident while we play and we need to go to the hospital, same thing.

So by all means sign a contract. Start from something that exists but take your time amending it and forming it to your relationship; the process is as important as the end result. Just, please, don't think it gives you any security outside of your relationship. Because it doesn't.

FabSeverus​(dom male) • Mar 17, 2018

I think my comment is lost in translation here.
so here a situation.
After a session a sub decided to go to the police and fill a rape assault. You got the contract agreement stating that sexual activities will be included in the session. You tell me know that legally the Dom will be prosecuted regardless of the signed contract?
I am not talking about assault, or accident which obviously we are responsible for it, as we should be sure we play safe and in control. Now maybe in the State with a good lawyer and their constitution there is room for negociation, in Europe its prob zero, other country depending the continent, it will be money talk.
I dont advocate the use of a contract as a safe guard at all, as I said before its either fun to write, but also show how serious you are into that dynamic.
So I hope I am clear now.

Fudbar​(dom male){❤️❤️❤️} • Mar 17, 2018

YES. This thread involves commenters from all over the world, so it's impossible to summarize all local laws in one post, but the idea that a contract created to enhance the pleasure of either partner could be legally binding or exculpatory (in criminal cases) is..well.. laughable. Want to argue? Cite case law or GTFO.

Further to that, N & A seem to be the only people who seem to have a grasp on how the law sees consent and BDSM. Many courts in many locations have held that regardless of the intention of the individuals involved, or any contracts, written or otherwise, some acts and play types are considered assault. Period. End of.
Suggesting a contract will help you there is like saying.. "Oh, it's cool your honour... the 12 year old signed a contract saying she would sleep with me!!"

Asteria​(neither female) • Mar 17, 2018

@FabSeverus

Technically, even when having a signed beforehand contract, in most legal systems you need consent before having each, particular sexual intercourse. Consent given "in general" in not binding in the way you might think. It is like saying that rape can't take place in marriage. Yes, it can.

And yes, this _is_ important subject as some of us are involved in quite risky activities. One has to be aware of that risk, following consequences and the ways that risk can be managed.

FabSeverus​(dom male) • Mar 17, 2018

its clear that some here doesnt read me propely or dont understand my way of writing, so I will leave this thread as I dont want to be misinterpreted and prejudged.

Fudbar​(dom male){❤️❤️❤️} • Mar 17, 2018

I'm sorry if you felt prejudged. I was reacting to your statements, not commenting on you as a person. Yes, there do appear to be some language difficulties as well, but I'd rather we understand each other than to see you walk away. No judging, just talking. I'm sorry if my tone seemed angry.

I will concede that you are correct about contracts if the ONLY issue was consent. You also said, "I'm not talking about assault. " and that's where the contract can get tricky. The problem is that the law views any bondage or impact play as assault in many jurisdictions. Your hypothetical Dom might very well acquit himself of the rape charge with the contract, but it would also be concrete evidence of premeditated assault or other charges that authorities could and do sometimes bring, even if both parties consented and didn't want to have charges filed.

Bianca15​(switch female) • Mar 17, 2018

The problem with using a contract to fight a rape charge is that (at least in the US), consent not only has to be given for each time you are sexually active, but it can be revoked at any time. For example, there is a rape case locally, in which a man attempted to have anal sex with his girlfriend within otherwise consensual sex. She had previously stated that she was not interested in anal sex, and told him to stop once he started. He says he did. She says that he shouldn't have attempted it because she had made it clear in the past that she was not, ever, going to consent to anal sex. He says he attempted it because he found out that she had at least attempted anal sex with an ex boyfriend. That is not consent, and although they were engaged in consensual vaginal sex, he was convicted of rape. This is a loose example, but the fact is, I could have completely consensual sex, change my mind in the middle of it, and if the man continues he can be found guilty of rape. Contract or not.

FabSeverus​(dom male) • Mar 17, 2018

Fudbar, you didnt sound angry but rather reading me the wrong way, so I prefer stopping rather than going around and repeating myself. I made myself clear with a specific example, and its going all over the place from rape in vanilla world to no conscentual sex within a mutual written agreement. If there is a contract saying we will having a sexual activity as a reward or punishment well its conscent otherwise you just dont sign it or take it off the list or put it as a hard limits. And a real Dom will never break that limits.

Bianca, if she told him no anal sex, he should never attempt it regardless if she had it previously with someone else. This is why its important to have a contract including every aspect of the future relationship.

I never said it was ok for a Dom to abuse in any way his sub just because they sign a contract.
I never said it was ok for a Dom to abuse in any way his sub just because they sign a contract.
I never said it was ok for a Dom to abuse in any way his sub just because they sign a contract.
I never said it was ok for a Dom to abuse in any way his sub just because they sign a contract.

Bianca15​(switch female) • Mar 17, 2018

Well, I did state that example wasn't perfect. But it is the most relevant real life example I can remember off the top of my head. (It was recent.)

Anyway, the point of my post is to reference this line from you (for some reason I can't directly quote it): "If there is a contract saying we will having a sexual activity as a reward or punishment well its conscent otherwise you just dont sign it or take it off the list or put it as a hard limits." This is categorically false (in the US, I can't and won't speak for every other country). Because it doesn't matter if a person signs a contract before the activity takes place. If consent is revoked at any time, even following the contract, or while the activity is occurring, you MUST stop. I agree with you, that in a perfect world, everyone would know in advance what they were willing to consent to, situations would never change, and no one would ever change their mind. But this isn't a perfect world.

And remember, not all doms are good people, just like any other group of people. Some will break limits. None of this may apply to you, but, regardless, it is a useful conversation. Largely because there are rape victims who blame themselves because they think they may have given consent, when in actuality they did not.

I'm not intending any of this to be argumentative or rude, so please do not take it that way. I just hope that people understand that blanket consent is not a thing (in the US).