genderfication

lambsone • Aug 21, 2024

"For someone who posts almost daily and takes up a significant portion of the narrative, this responsibility is amplified, thus the amplified reaction."

WOW. The plot thickens. I had no idea I was one of those taking up a significant portion of the narrative since so many of my posts have generated backlash. Which begs the questions: do we have limits here as to how big our portions are allowed to be? Boundary lines that we should be staying within as to how much we should post until we start becoming a target? Are there limits to how much we can post daily in order to know when we are taking up a significant portion of the narrative? Is there someone here who is the official judge of portion amounts? If I'm going to be seen as a significant poster who is more responsible than others to be careful not to offend anyone with my posts, I need clarity on these issues and expectations.


"I don’t speak out against every poster because not every poster is dominating the space. This means being mindful of how our words might affect others and striving to create an environment where everyone feels safe to share and learn is even more important."

So you mean that if someone posted the same questions I do, they would be left alone and unchallenged if they hardly posted at all? If so this seems inconsistent with the mission of taking genderization to task. I also had no idea that people who posted frequently were "dominating the space" at the cage. So those who hardly talk at all, don't have to watch their words? That seems unfair to me. I understood that we all had to watch our words because we all could offend. I understood that we all were on a level playing field. Now it seems that their are layers of hierarchy involved. And here I thought I was just asking questions. I guess I should feel privileged to be one of those at the top of the food chain of posting frequently and suffering the consequences of getting targeted. However I have seen people get targeted with their first and only post in the forums so this rubric seems as though it's inconsistent as well. Either you speak out against anyone who you feel is excluding other genders or you speak out against no one. But be consistent for Pete's sake and treat all people fairly.

Geeze, no wonder this topic is giving me a migraine. It seems to be a bottomless pit of expectations. And I think it's going to be impossible to meet them all.

Sweetlydepraved​(masochist female){Owned} • Aug 21, 2024

The more you speak in public the greater your level of responsibility. Most especially when you’re approaching it as an educational topic.

I’m sorry that you weren’t aware of this. I understand that you may not have all the tools to be successful with public discourse, but people are trying to give you those tools over a period of months and you’re intentionally choosing not to use them. People have told you time and time again that the forum isn’t your personal space for education, it’s a collective. Your words and attitudes are harmful to the collective.

I am not thinking about you and you and you or me. I’m thinking about the 22 year old who is struggling with their identity. I’m thinking about the battered woman who is just now starting to use her voice. I’m thinking about the transgender person who feels excluded every single day of their life.

It’s literally my job to protect disadvantaged populations. I’m the one in the trenches working with at risk youth to prevent things like suicide.

51% of transgender individuals aged 18-29 have considered suicide (JAMA Network Open, 2020).

29% of transgender individuals aged 18-29 have attempted suicide (JAMA Network Open, 2020).

42% of LGBTQ+ youth (aged 13-24) have seriously considered suicide in the past year (The Trevor Project, 2023).

19% of LGBTQ+ youth have attempted suicide in the past year (The Trevor Project, 2023).

Transgender and non-binary youth are 2 to 3 times more likely to attempt suicide compared to their cisgender peers (The Trevor Project, 2023).

86% of LGBTQ+ youth report that recent politics negatively impacted their well-being, contributing to increased suicidal thoughts (The Trevor Project, 2023)

Let those numbers sit with you. Stop thinking about yourself for a minute of your day, and think about who you are hurting.

I am passionate about this topic because I see the effect of the harm done every day. It takes SO little effort for people to put a stop to it. All it would take for you is to change a couple of words in your post, and putting forth the effort to not be dismissive to others who don’t fit your demographic agenda. That’s all it takes. 2 minutes of being thoughtful and intentional.

shebakesalot​(sub female) • Aug 21, 2024

When I first came to The Cage, I was mostly a lurker, and I got a sense of what was what through who was blogging or posting within the forums the most. While not new to the lifestyle, I was new to the community both in person and online. So to SD's point, yes, there is weight to the notion that people who are most active having "more sway," so to speak. This isn't a bad thing and yes, it is a privilege to be seen that way. Again, this is not a bad thing, but for those new to the site and/or lurking, it does makes an impact whether we're aware of it or not.

DoseofCam​(sub female){Collared} • Aug 21, 2024

As a member of Gen Z, I acknowledge that my understanding of certain issues may be limited, partly because they may not be as prevalent or problematic in my generation. My generation has witnessed increasing inclusivity and acceptance, so I haven't personally experienced much discrimination related to gender identity. For instance, when I identified as non-binary, I didn't face exclusion or ridicule. Many people my age also adopt a “I don't give a fuck” attitude, so if faced with exclusion, we often either ignore it or find a way to include ourselves.

However, I recognize that some communities, like the kink community, may not have fully adapted to these changes. While the general trend is towards greater acceptance, including within the LGBTQIA+ community, there are still areas where progress is needed.

Regarding forums and discussions, I've not encountered issues with topics being specified for one gender or another. When engaging in such discussions, I prefer to contribute positively if I can, and remain silent if I cannot. I believe in fostering a supportive environment by avoiding negative comments. If a forum seems exclusive or problematic, it might be more constructive to create a new, inclusive forum or address concerns privately with the forum's creator rather than publicly criticizing and potentially generating negativity.

I understand that some individuals may feel hesitant to speak up due to the way forums are structured or because of fear of backlash. Yet, the essence of the kink community is about embracing and expressing oneself. Thus, speaking up, despite potential negative reactions, aligns with the community’s values of authenticity and self-expression.

That's all I have. Peace and Love peeps.

intenseoldman​(dom male) • Aug 21, 2024

lambsone, what that sentence says is that since you are the OP of more forum threads than the average bear here, it would be good for the community if you thought a little more about your perspective and broadened it to include a larger audience.

You victimize yourself by deliberately misinterpreting what's said. Your detractors want you to speak to a large audience. I haven't seen you acquiesce at any turn to a simple ask. It's a rather easy thing.

No one is saying you post too much. In truth, if you weren''t active in this space, there would have been days nothing was posted at all. That sentence says nothing at all about limited portions or boundary lines.

Saying you're a target is making yourself a victim. It's saying that "poor innocent me" did nothing to deserve this, and that's just not true. You're saying nothing is your responsibility when you really should be taking some responsibility.. Could you broaden your audience to be more inclusive? Of course you could, just like everyone else here, could.

That's pretty much the whole point of this thread. If we all did, everyone would be happier and it would be a better Cage People just want to nudge you into a space that's better for the community of which you are a prominent member.

Instead of being so narrowly focused, which is your inalienable right to be, why not listen to the kids and say, "yeah, I see your point, I could be a little more inclusive. I want a better place where more people feel welcomed. Thanks for bringing this to my attention."

While you're opposed by some, you're loved by more. I think even they who oppose you are patient and kind in their opposition. I would hope that you'd start listening to them instead of reacting to them. In my humble opinion it's not my world anymore, it's theirs. You said in your blog if there were a WWIII none of these kids could fight. Well that's the whole point, they want a world where there will never be a WWIII, a world where people listen to one another and work out their differences without a war.

Heero​(dom male) • Aug 21, 2024

I can't speak on this as a member of gen z, but I very much agree with this!

You've made some of my points much more succinctly, and also made points that I would have made in another response.

=====================================

I do understand that some people are passionate about certain issues, including the one here, and have very good reasons for being so. But I urge people to really consider my questions again. Is there a better way?

It is very possible (and I have seen it happen here), that in an effort to stop some sort of harm, people do that very harm, just in a slightly different way. Without a doubt there are more voices now calling out for inclusivity than I've ever seen on cage, yet, I also get the sense that the cage has had a rather negative feel to it as of recently. Many posts have all this bickering that it seems quite clear to me is not necessary. The cage definitely feels less inclusive and more negative to me even though there are more voices fighting for inclusivity and positivity, and that should not be the case. Something is amiss. I really hate to quote Trump, but when a statement is right, it's right regardless of who says it: "The cure should not be worse than the disease." And in my view, I'm seeing a lot of that happening, where the ones fighting for inclusivity and a positive atmosphere are also the ones making a negative atmosphere when one really does not need to exist.

I am not being dismissive of any concerns. If anyone gets that impression from what I am writing, please read closer or ask me about direct statements I am making. Perhaps in DMs, since I'm not sure how much more I'll be responding here.

I have already addressed being respectful in my earlier response. I also addressed confronting people who ACTUALLY are doing things contrary to the growth of a positive and inclusive community. So those are off the table. But as another saying goes, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." The effect of a good idea and good intentions comes out in the execution. And when one acts in an exclusive manner to fight for inclusion, it does not have the intended effect.

I know this is whole thing is mostly to help the new and vulnerable and those that have always felt excluded and all that, and I hate to make this about me, but bare with me for a minute, I will bring it back to them.

As a veteran of the cage, and a dominant male who is absolutely not afraid to speak his mind, nor have I ever myself felt excluded here on the cage (if someone asks for the opinion of just the ladies or just gay men or just whoever, I literally do not care): even someone like me becomes reluctant to contribute to a post when I see all the bickering going on. And if what is going on is making even ME reluctant to contribute more to forums, do you really think it is making the new and vulnerable feel more comfortable to do so?

There are other things to address, but I think others are already doing a fine job at addressing those things. So I will stop here.

intenseoldman​(dom male) • Aug 21, 2024

Good start to making a better Cage.

Even if it's not the case or intent, or deliberately is the case and intent of the OP to be exclusionary, if people genuinely feel that the post is exclusionary, then it's the OPs responsibility to address that concern, not "defend themself". IMHO that's when it becomes an off-topic shitshow. If people could just say, "Oh, you're right. Let me fix that.", or, "let me explain why I am speaking to such a narrow audience" Boom, problem solved, no shitshow, happy Cage. When genuine concerns are de-legitimatized, dismissed, or reacted to instead of listened to, just expect more shit. Most people who would go out on a limb to express their concerns, if they aren't listened to, aren't going away . It's your inalienable right to be contrary, but the consequences (shit) for the manner in which you are contrary... you have no control over. So, why not just listen ?

True True

No intent to start a war here, but I just don't like the use of this syllogistic fallacy. It's manipulating the argument to say even though the forum is public, it's exclusionary by nature since it includes personal issues. No, public forums are inclusive by nature period. Each thread might not be, but if it could be, it should.

Good sermon. Worth the read. Thanks for contributing.

DoseofCam​(sub female){Collared} • Aug 21, 2024

@intenseoldman, you make valid points.

I believe the main issue for me is that when something bothers you, it’s important to address it in a way that encourages constructive criticism rather than negativity. It’s also best to handle such matters privately, so that everyone can continue enjoying the forums without witnessing any unpleasantness. Personally, I’m not a fan of public call-outs, as they can be embarrassing or hurtful for the person being called out. Especially if they didn't mean to cause anyone to be excluded/hurt by what they posted. Benefit of the doubt.

Maybe this is coming from a "naive" point of view, but I'm just the type who doesn't like seeing or experiencing conflict, particularly when it's in a community that's supposed to be safe and accepting of all.

Heero​(dom male) • Aug 21, 2024

I agree with what you said...if things always happened as you said. I have even observed what you say, and it's beautiful when it happens. Totally with you there.

But it has not been what I have observed, especially lately. As I mentioned in my last post, the execution matters. And there are clearly times when a person having to "defend themself" would be more reasonable than just "explaining". And this is a reoccurring point I have been trying to make. Do you want to just be right for the sake of being right, or do you actually want to change things.

It very much depends on how people come at you. Deferent responses are more likely depending on the stimulus. If you come at people with vitriol, it is reasonable to expect it in return. Same with a lack of respect and all that. The more stoic among us can often rise above this, but many can't.

I have seen people respond with so much hate when it is CLEAR the poster had no ill intent. And that is what my two wrongs don't make a right section was about.

I am not dismissing problems, but I am saying a lot of the "solutions" I've been seeing are problems themselves. And even more lamentable, they're the same kind of problem, just redirected. It's sort of like a violence begets more violence sort of cycle.

I did not say nor did I intend to say that a forum is exclusionary by nature. That is absurd. I don't intend to start a war either. I am participating in this forum because I think it's important and I like that we're doing it and I want to keep it going as constructively as possible--but you just committed a fallacy against me! 🤣 I will do my best to explain a bit more clearly without getting too long winded.

But also, blanket statements are rarely true. "If it could be, it should"? False. So if things could be more inclusive they should be? Would that apply to people someone has blocked? Someone who is harassing someone else? Removing a block from someone I blocked for legitimate reasons will make that person included in my posts. Should I do that? There are many legitimate reasons to have to exclude someone. Not all of them are as serious as blocking someone, but I am giving an extreme example to bring the point home since people seem to like thinking in extremes. These statements of extreme inclusivity sound good and noble on the surface, but the devil is in the details.

And I also think that a disagreement on definitions might also cause some confusion. Inclusive does NOT mean that everyone needs to participate in every post every time. It does not mean that everything I say needs to apply to the widest possible audience. It does not mean every issue I raise needs to have input from everyone. And this is especially the case when it is not a situation where a person holds power that others do not hold. Literally anyone can create a forum post to discuss what they want to discuss. Someone saying "women only" in a forum post is quite literally doing nothing to prevent me from voicing my thoughts as a man. Absolutely nothing. I can still comment on that post if I want, I can still create my own post to give a man's perspective. I am not ACTUALLY being excluded. And the irony is, if I want to be able to elicit the opinions of a set group of people, it is actually INCLUSIVE to allow me to do so.

And I will stand by this statement: public forum or not, it is NOT exclusionary for me to ask for the opinions of certain people for certain things. There has to be other factors that would make something exclusionary. Feeling like you should be able to comment on something I wrote and getting upset that I didn't specifically invite you or your category to comment is not such a factor.

And on another note, people including myself already admit to this: that if they think it's relevant or important, they will respond to a post even if they were categorically excluded from it. In the cases we're discussing, no one is actually being prevented from participating.

Heero​(dom male) • Aug 21, 2024

Darn it. You said it better than I could again! Maybe I should start asking you to edit my stuff!