tallslenderguy(other male)
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2 years ago •
Jan 14, 2022
WytchyWoman wrote: Closetedfreak wrote: I guess I see it quite differently. Like I said if it works for someone else that's their business but I don't see how anyone with any self esteem could be okay with their partner openly having sex with another. I just don't see how that works with a healthy self worth. I hope you don't mind the frank discussion, some may not be in the mood and consider it preachy, which is not my intent.
Since you don't mind frank discussions, I'll mention that a good number of people would have a hard time understanding how licking someone's butthole is a healthy expression of self esteem. Along with innumerable other things some of us do regularly as we pursue our various kinks. In short, sometimes people don't see the forest for the trees when it comes to defending their own brand while looking askance at another. My big thing is the use of the word "forced" as in - *she made me do it!* and that has been a recurrent theme in this discussion. i've been working, so limited time, and just read more of the recent comments in this thread. i too have some speed bumps with the term "forced." There was a time in my life when i was conflicted about being gay and about many of my needs and desires that went along with that. i had an ongoing fantasy of being kidnapped by a guy, taken to His home, kept captive and being 'forced' to do a whole detailed list of things on a regular basis. The "force" part (for me) was not really force at all, it was a way around my own lack of self acceptance. It seems to me that if one is expressing a desire to be forced, it is no longer force? Or at least it removes a major factor out of force: the violation of ones volition. Doing something one does not want to do is not the same as being forced to do something against ones will. In the first case, the will is not violated if the person 'willfully' wants to be made to do _______________. |
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Online now
Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker}
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2 years ago •
Jan 14, 2022
Extreme snip for focus:
tallslenderguy wrote: i too have some speed bumps with the term "forced."
It seems to me that if one is expressing a desire to be forced, it is no longer force? Or at least it removes a major factor out of force: the violation of ones volition. Doing something one does not want to do is not the same as being forced to do something against ones will. In the first case, the will is not violated if the person 'willfully' wants to be made to do _______________. There ya go! Now *that* makes sense and I have been taking the concept of "forced" literally up until now. One of my most "guilty pleasures" is fantasizing over any number of CNC scenarios that get loose and gallop through my head on a fairly regular basis. 😉 |
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tallslenderguy(other male)
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2 years ago •
Jan 14, 2022
WytchyWoman wrote: Extreme snip for focus:
tallslenderguy wrote: i too have some speed bumps with the term "forced."
It seems to me that if one is expressing a desire to be forced, it is no longer force? Or at least it removes a major factor out of force: the violation of ones volition. Doing something one does not want to do is not the same as being forced to do something against ones will. In the first case, the will is not violated if the person 'willfully' wants to be made to do _______________. There ya go! Now *that* makes sense and I have been taking the concept of "forced" literally up until now. One of my most "guilty pleasures" is fantasizing over any number of CNC scenarios that get loose and gallop through my head on a fairly regular basis. 😉 Yeah, it seems to me that “guilt” is a culturally conditioned response that may conflict with a need or desire. “Force” can provide a rationale against the conditioning that causes guilt. ‘ i did ________, and a part of me liked it, and a part of me felt shame (“guilty pleasure “), but it wasn’t my fault, I was forced.” So I feel conditioned stuff like shame, degradation, humiliation, mixed with affirming pleasure. |
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Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker}
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2 years ago •
Jan 14, 2022
tallslenderguy wrote: Yeah, it seems to me that “guilt” is a culturally conditioned response that may conflict with a need or desire. “Force” can provide a rationale against the conditioning that causes guilt.
‘ i did ________, and a part of me liked it, and a part of me felt shame (“guilty pleasure “), but it wasn’t my fault, I was forced.” So I feel conditioned stuff like shame, degradation, humiliation, mixed with affirming pleasure. And therein lies the very basis for some people's desire to present as a submissive. Notice I said "desire" and not "need" and "present as" a submissive" rather than actually being naturally subservient. I notice this in so many people, male AND female. Quite a few people mask themselves as *submissive* by ostensibly offering service and obedience when in fact they're *really* after freedom from accountability. There's no real desire to be subjugated by another, but a very STRONG desire to have their fantasies of helplessness fulfilled. After all, (as their thinking goes), if my _______ ORDERS me to do something, I get all the enjoyment of getting off without having to feel shame or guilt over it. It's the very basis of most porn/erotica written from any "submissive's" point of view. The same old "he/she ORDERED me to do that!" and "I totally did NOT want to do that" - but the underlying theme revealed is "dammit all, it felt soooo good and it's not my fault". |
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Dom Pinnacle(dom male)
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2 years ago •
Jan 14, 2022
WytchyWoman wrote: tallslenderguy wrote: Yeah, it seems to me that “guilt” is a culturally conditioned response that may conflict with a need or desire. “Force” can provide a rationale against the conditioning that causes guilt.
‘ i did ________, and a part of me liked it, and a part of me felt shame (“guilty pleasure “), but it wasn’t my fault, I was forced.” So I feel conditioned stuff like shame, degradation, humiliation, mixed with affirming pleasure. And therein lies the very basis for some people's desire to present as a submissive. Notice I said "desire" and not "need" and "present as" a submissive" rather than actually being naturally subservient. I notice this in so many people, male AND female. Quite a few people mask themselves as *submissive* by ostensibly offering service and obedience when in fact they're *really* after freedom from accountability. There's no real desire to be subjugated by another, but a very STRONG desire to have their fantasies of helplessness fulfilled. After all, (as their thinking goes), if my _______ ORDERS me to do something, I get all the enjoyment of getting off without having to feel shame or guilt over it. It's the very basis of most porn/erotica written from any "submissive's" point of view. The same old "he/she ORDERED me to do that!" and "I totally did NOT want to do that" - but the underlying theme revealed is "dammit all, it felt soooo good and it's not my fault". Hey we've gone back and forth a few times. But I really dig what you and tallslenderguy have said in this post. The FANTASY of helplessness is on point. Good stuff. |
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