Are slaves also subs?

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Dec 1, 2021

There's so much heartfelt emotion and longing being expressed here. I don't think of myself as shallow in my interactions, on the other hand, I'm very independent and have little need for any kind of "validation" from any other person in order to feel fulfilled. I don't intend that to sound dismissive at all - in fact, I wish I could be more "traditional" and pliable at times. I know where my very strong streak of "resistance to authority" first developed in my life but I long ago ceased worrying about being the "less than" outcast among the "twue subs" and "twue dominates". I have actually had that thrown in my face by both dominants AND submissives - that I'm *less than* them for being in it for "fun and games" rather than what they've called the *serious and sacred*.

I can still fully relate to your nostalgia over prior fulfilling relationships though. Both of my marriages were good ones and I'm still great friends with the ex-husband still living. Neither marriage provided all I wanted out of life, but both were sufficient to have been worth my while. Again - I know some folks write me off as "unfeeling" but I tend to not spend much time in the "what might have been" when there's still so much to be discovered in the "what might be in the future."

You strike me as having the perfect balance of hopeful optimism and a level headed pragmatism that can only serve you and your sir both very well. Wishing the both of you much happiness on your continuing journey.

FunCouple{.-Couple-.} • Dec 2, 2021

G’day
My thoughts are that D/s are two sides of the same coin.
One is Top and One is bottom.
There are who they are with each other through communication, negotiation, respect and attraction (I should hope).
At any time either can call it a day or negotiate a change (switch).

In my mind Master/slave is pretty fixed.
There is no Power Paradox or sharing.
It’s all in or nothing; and I would assume the ‘nothing’ is pretty hard to get out of for a slave.

Not sure if it answers your question and this all just popped into my head while sitting here ‘powdering my nose’.
(I’ll let you work out what that means).

FC

SubtleHush​(sub female) • Dec 2, 2021

WytchyWoman​ said:

"I long ago ceased worrying about being the "less than" outcast among the "twue subs" and "twue dominates". I have actually had that thrown in my face by both dominants AND submissives - that I'm *less than* them for being in it for "fun and games" rather than what they've called the *serious and sacred*."

...Yes. The "seesaw phenom". If they knock you down they think they are automatically elevated. Ironically, the need to knock others down to validate oneself is an automatic sign of just how low one is. LOL, I have been "only the sub" or "not a sub" in more than a few discussions with wanting men and Ms folks who didn't like my mind, strength, or stubbornness. And, of course, an unenlightened hidden domme to those male subs who decided they could rewrite me for their own gain.

THAT need to rewrite others against their will, always tells me that that is a person compensating for his/her own shortcomings by forcing a square peg so to speak.

"I can still fully relate to your nostalgia over prior fulfilling relationships though. Both of my marriages were good ones and I'm still great friends with the ex-husband still living. Neither marriage provided all I wanted out of life, but both were sufficient to have been worth my while."

...I totally get what you are saying here.

"Again - I know some folks write me off as "unfeeling" but I tend to not spend much time in the "what might have been" when there's still so much to be discovered in the "what might be in the future."

...my Spidey sense tells me that you are not unfeeling. Rather more organized in your emotions and dare I say, closer to self-actualized than many of us. In life, all any of us can do is meet our own needs. Sure we can share that task with another or a few but it starts with us. Period.

"You strike me as having the perfect balance of hopeful optimism and a level-headed pragmatism that can only serve you and your sir both very well. Wishing the both of you much happiness on your continuing journey."

... Perfect? Hun ONLY after the second (or 7th) cup of coffee

The quickest path to wisdom is to screw everything up over and over again, and once you dust yourself off -well you just go and screw it up again. At some point, the price is just too high to stay in that hamster wheel and hopefully grow.

Your well wishes are appreciated. Sir died suddenly in 2015 just 6 weeks after we moved in together. I have known quite a few men of his caliber but the alignments weren't there. (Or they're missing out on a great opportunity. he he)

I believe life is about motion. Backward, forwards, or in a circle, we're all moving. Question is, are we moving in the right direction to reach anything of worth? Most of my particular prattle is offered in the hope that others save steps that maybe I have wasted. But that is up to them. If your way works for you then that is the only Twue way that matters.

Best
H*

IronWorld​(sadist male) • Dec 2, 2021

All squares are rectangles. Not all rectangles are squares.

All slaves are subs. Not all subs are slaves.

I dont see the sub/slave dynamic as being that different because even in a vanilla relationship a woman will lose respect for a man if they dont show strength nearly all the time (and dont tell me this is a patriarchal concept because 100+ years of feminism has never once put a working, sustainable alternative into practice, and if it had, feminists could actually withhold more from men than just the flap of flesh between their legs - which is the same thing any non-feminist can withhold - the non-feminist can withhold more, but I've diverged too much already).

This next statement is going to shock/hurt a lot of people (other than the feminists who are already offended and typing their responses in their mind - sorry, not sorry), but its the cold, hard truth: there's simply no such thing as equality. Its a cute concept at a legal level, but in practice and especially in interpersonal relationships, its much, much messier than that. There's always going to be more give in certain areas and more take in certain areas. One could claim "diversity is strength", and they'd be partially right, but even then not every person will ever be able to fill a specific role in the same manner as a successful partner. All success requires merit-based gatekeeping.

What does all this have to do with vanilla/submissive/slave dynamics? Each requires dominant strength on the part of the man. Its only a matter of the degree. Each requires an amount of submission on the part of the woman. Its only a matter of the degree. (YOU SEXIST HOMOPHOBE!! HOW DARE YOU NOT INCLUDE gays, lesbians etc in your worldview??!! - Because I'm straight. I dont date LGTs. In my biological worldview - and my biology is immutable by your philosophy - the male penetrates the female. That's submission. Period.)

IronWorld​(sadist male) • Dec 2, 2021

Good for you. Well done. Anyone looking for a "true" or "real" anything is pre-emptively creating a fictional expectation and an ever-ready excuse for not putting effort into a relationship. No one needs that toxic crap.

"Its not my fault the relationship failed. S/He wasn't a true X or a real Y"

SubtleHush​(sub female) • Dec 2, 2021

WytchyWoman,​ you know... it's like a moron escalator was installed and they just keep coming lol

boring
boringer
boringest

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Dec 2, 2021

.

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Dec 2, 2021

hanks again for seeing what most people don't see (or rather DO see but hate to acknowledge). I've never struggled to self actualize. I'm exquisitely well aware of both my own *best* attributes and those that do NOT serve me well. The thing that confounds the FUCK out of me are those types of people that look upon that as a sign of being "less than" and not worthy of being in their " super special BDSM club.

I saw a post a few weeks ago (on FetLife) where a new "submissive" and her new "daddy" attended their first munch and she spoke of being soooo disappointed over how vanilla it was - no subs kneeling nekkid at the feet of their MALE dominants, no female subbies with eyes lowered and mouths gagged just waiting for their holes to have cocks pumped into them in public. Sounds ridiculous but there it is. This woman and her man went to a munch believing that everyone in the joint shared their exact same kinky dynamic and were disappointed at how "ordinary" those supposedly kinky people turned out to be.

I also have a near zero addiction personality type - people get riled up because I have no problem giving up any and all "vices" - and will do so at the slightest hint of having to actually make an effort to obtain something like drugs (legal or illegal), alcohol, nicotine, caffeine ... and well you get the idea. It confuses the hell out of ME because my being able to ditch these behaviors is pure laziness - if I have to expend actual effort then I'm out the door on those behaviors. It's pure expediency for me although I've even been accused of "making the rest of us look bad." ...

I suspected you had lost your sir through circumstances not of yours or his own choice/making, but it saddens me knowing how much hurt you've had to endure after seeing all that beautiful potential cut short. I sometimes think it might be better to have never had a taste at all rather than having to endure the pain of having it realized and then seeing it taken away in front of your very eyes. Again, I wish you many years of fruitful and enjoyable new adventures ahead.

Spellbound Wytch{Mr. Parker} • Dec 2, 2021

What these types never seem to be able to explain though is how THEY allowed themselves to be "fooled"/"taken in" by the fakery.

SubtleHush​(sub female) • Dec 2, 2021

There is no way to describe to most what losing your Dominant is like. We had 6 years before moving in together. I have a long post on fet about it and how the concept of obedience is for BOTH in the dynamic, not just the bottom.

I struggle with my vices but continue to work on them. Some days you're the bonbon and some days you're the garbage pale. Still, I believe in balance. Else you are always flying between extremes and who has that amount of energy?

Oh, the Twat types never see how gullible they were then and how bitter and angry they are now when they post that sort of diarrhea. I think I'm doing pretty darn well in ignoring this one. Then again, he isn't that interesting and shocked and hurt? ROFLMAO is just so cute when they think that. LOL

They gotta stop letting these Lil boys out for the holidays.