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Emotional Domination

There are 4 main types (and each of them bleed into one another on varying levels) of domination:

Physical
Mental
Emotional
Spiritual

Which one do you prefer to practice and why?
4 months ago. December 28, 2023 at 10:51 PM

I have always had this nagging issue with the words Power Exchange.

 

Maybe it's the linguist in me?

OR 

That I despise a label as an end-all-be-all truth?

 

The words never have rung true for me. It is an incomplete or insufficient choice of words over a type of dynamic shared in BDSM.

 

My reasoning?

 

There is no power that is exchanged equally between parties in a D/s or M/s dynamic that I can see on the surface.

Yes, it is true, for those who incorporate love in their dynamics there is a sharing of hearts. Generally, even that is not equal.

We can share respect one for another. On equal footing even, each from their station.

I suppose in that lens the power of respect is then exchanged.

 

I have wondered, maybe I am just hung up on the word exchange? To ME, exchange is something mutual. Equal. I give to you, you give to me. That is, a fair (?) exchange.

It is more than just the exchange is not equal though.

What a submissive gives is not equal to what a dominant gives. It just is not (I will explain below).

 

I am NOT saying it is less important or valuable. This is not a discussion on the merits of what we each give. I ABSOLUTELY accept the value of what anyone gives within their capacity is valuable and worthy of respect, acceptance, appreciation, and validation. 

 

The honesty is that a parent has more responsibility than a child. It is not equal. When more responsibility is required so also is the level of giving required greater. No child would survive if a parent did not take up the responsibility for providing for that child in very real ways (working to provide food, shelter, creature comforts etc cetera). The parent clearly gives more. Is the child somehow less valuable?? Goodness no!!! In fact it is because of the value of the child to the parent that the responsibility is taken so seriously and what is given is so powerful and necessary. No child, regardless of their value, gives more than their parent. It is simply a fact.

So also is it in many dynamics. The dominant takes all the responsibility for the care, well-being, & needs of the submissive. The value of the submissive is incalculable to the dominant.....very true. That is not the same thing as saying the submissive gives as much as a dominant does. By the law of power a dominant absolutely gives more. They must. Or are they ever really leading? You could not follow someone who did not lead by example. Who did not show how to follow. Obedience will only take you so far. Structure, will only take you so far. You can not make your heart obedient. You can not structure feelings, no matter how hard you try. Eventually, if surrender does not come from the heart, it will fail you. Guaranteed. How does submission come from the heart? Same way it comes from a child, by respect (including a small amount of fear), need (not to be confused with co-dependency), safety (in ALL the ways not just physically), provision (in ALL the ways), protection (in ALL the ways). AKA, the power of dominance. 

 

In any event, I believe it is much richer to 'out-give' as a dominant within our dynamics. The rewards of building a dynamic around this understanding or structure are far more uplifting and set a standard of a particular role model versus being the expectant recipient of submission with nothing more than because you are the dominant as a reason. 

 

With power comes what?

Authority.

 

With authority comes what?

 

Responsibility.

 

A submissive has none of this. They exchange no power of authority or responsibility over a dominant.

 

"But Drago, a submissive grants authority and responsibility TO a dominant!" 

 

Do they though?

 

I will give you that a submissive allows a dominant to have authority and responsibility over them (even that often is limited however to their comfort level). That is not the same thing as the dominant having authority and responsibility regardless. I would also contend that a submissive seeks and desires a dominant that has and holds responsibility and authority. 

 

What do I mean?

 

As a dominant I have worked long and hard to be responsible for my own life. To manage it well. I have taken authority over my actions, correcting them if I need to, taking accountability when I missed something. I am NEVER handing that power over to anyone. In what way should I ever exchange that with another? Or, put another way, what submissive would ever want a dominant to hand over that kind of power? Isn't that what a great many submissives seek? A dominant in control of their life with deep integrity and responsibility to the extent that they own, with full authority, their actions, reactions, emotions, choices etc cetera? 

 

Add to that, what many submissives that seek a D/s or M/s dynamic want is a leader. Someone they can trust to follow.

 

How can you trust someone to follow them?

Certainly one of the many things, if not the largest first thing, is the ability of that dominant to be responsible in tangible, real-life ways in their lives. They have authority over their existence and use that authority wisely to firstly become the best individual they can be, and then also supporting others, in some fashion, using their authority to enrich others lives.

I know of no submissive that would genuinely follow any dominant that did not have this power over their own lives. They would not be able to trust them fully. 

 

So I ask, 

 

In what way am I, as a dominant, exchanging power with a submissive?

 

I refuse to set down this power for anyone. I am not relinquishing my responsibility or authority for anything. This would make me small. Possibly even insecure. Surely it would create questions of trustworthiness if I did. I mean, how many submissives have lamented a dominant partner who buckled or let them get away with whatever? Who had no backbone? Who had no power? Who had no self responsibility to a set of values no matter what? 

Just as children can grow up and become unruly, or disobedient because the parent tried to be their equal rather than their security, safety, consistency, power in their life so also would any submissive (in my lens) become if you were trying to exchange with them on some sort of equal footing.

I will repeat, I have never known of any submissive that wants a leader whom they are on equal footing with. They want a superior. Someone they can look up to. A rock that will weather their storms with them. Whom can stay steadfast. Who has the power to calm them, keep them, be their shelter.

No shelter protects you from the storms of life if it is not above you.

Again, not in some narcissistic way. No parent who loves their child treats them as less than. But they also do not expect the child to go out and get a job to take care of the household when that is not their responsibility. 

 

Am I seeing it incorrectly? I mean truly......am I missing an obvious thing here?

Am I making it more complicated than it needs to be? Sincerely asking. Not just rhetorical.

 

If not Power Exchange, then what?

 

I have absolutely wrestled with this question. Power imbalance has been the place I have landed most honestly. That has often felt, however, like it has some denigrating tone to what a submissive brings to a dominants world. While it may be factually true, it also fails to highlight the role of a submissive in a very positive light. 

What Amethyst brings to my world, is in many ways from my view, an amazingly magical thing I could never create or give. And have often lamented that I lack the words to even enunciate. It is sacred, unique, special, divine, beyond imagination. To express that we have a Power Exchange dynamic would equally be as insufficient in expressing what she gives to me.

 

Sometimes I think we use words or phrases as something to just say. Like, we fail to honestly think about what we are trying to convey and we lose sight of the meaning we intend or desire. 

I find personally a great importance in words. If communication is key, words are the lock. What we intend to be on the other side of the communication door is understanding. If not understanding, empathy. If not empathy, then sympathy. Because we want to be seen, heard, met.

I wish I had some inspiration around what words would better describe a dynamic outside of Power Exchange or Power Imbalance. I feel these both fail to succinctly describe sufficiently the roles that are lived. 

 

Maybe,

Value Investment Relationships?

 

Doesn't quite roll off the tongue does it??? 😂

 

What do you think?

I am absolutely open to hearing others perspectives and thoughts here. I am certain I do not see all the lenses around this!!

 

 

I hope that you f

ind your purpose and clarity today.

 

 

Namaste

 

 

 

Drago and Amethyst

 

 

12/28/2023

 

 

PlutoOrange - for me today, sub is the one who gave up the fight. and dom is the one who didnt give up searching for Truth, Compassion, better Values, Goodness. and sub gives up hisher energy to a dom to multiply His results in searching for better moments and more light.

by giving up I accept my sub side. but that doesnt change in me my values. im glad it happened not by anyones influence or carrots of pleasures (going back to older posts of you and Amethyst). that part of a sub cant be grown by a dom by a definition of it (which in different words you also always speak about speaking about codependancy). because if that was influenced by simple wishes of desire and other reward system elements, it is not goodness, not free will of choice in randomness, this is why bdsm in a way too... Meaning, if we would knew the outcome, that wouldnt be a risky free will choice, but a calculated not free decisions.
so in fact I dont even see I was anyhow changed. bcs we are alive at the level we can still stand own ego for being better for others. it is so complex, much far beyond term 'power exchange'.

in that regard, by your logic of searching each time for new words (thank you for not giving up doing that), I can add bdsm doesnt even exist. it is just a practice to go deeper in researching oneselves beyond words. it is a field of philosophy of actions, beyond the words. no more no less.

and in that regard I am especially delighted to be able to rationalise my single life to that extend of complexity not to see the difference between single SD dynamic and obeying to own values as a coping

be blessed you two
4 months ago
Heero​(dom male) - You make several cogent points here, and even if I don't agree with them--some I do--I see that they are reasonable points of contention to discuss. Having said that, I do think it's the linguist in you getting overly hung up on the phrase power exchange. Also, the concept of the exchange necessarily(?) being equal? Not only do I think this is not a requirement per se, I definitely don't think it would be measurable to any precise degree, and therefore, is overall a consideration without real merit. I think it is better to judge based on the people participating in a dynamic are fulfilled, rather than worrying about whether they are getting an equal exchange for what they're putting in.

Another point is, as for the word "value", something of good value also implies there isn't really equality in the first place. People usually use the phrase, "this is of good value" to mean "this is worth more than what I paid for it". In the end, an equal exchange is not even what is sought really, even though people may think that it is. What we really seek is fulfillment, to feel as if we got something of value for what we give. People will often try to quantify this using concepts such as "equality", like, "I know I should feel fulfilled if we have an equal exchange", but I think such a consideration misses the point on several levels.

Let's say I make a pie, and I deem it's value to be worth $5 and I sell it to you for $5. Did we make an exchange? Surely. Did we make an "equal" exchange? Who can say? For one, the pie has no inherent quantitative value....there are many things that affect the price of the ingredients that go into the pie as well as what I think my labor for making the pie should be worth. And this is clearly different in various contexts and scenarios for things that seem equivalent on the surface. So the "$5" in an ultimate sense, is arbitrary. Now look at the pie. Is an apple pie to one person worth the same as an apple pie to another person? I think clearly not. For one person, an apple pie can be a thing of nostalgia. Something they used to share with a loved one during some of the times of their life that they consider to be better times. They would have gladly paid more than the $5 to relive, in some small part, that feeling. The pie is of good value to them. To another, it could just be a rush purchase, wanting to bring something to a party they were invited to. It's not so valuable to them, they paid for it to give it away. To them it has more value in the sense of showing them to be a considerate guest. Is $5 an "equal" exchange for the pie. Does the $5 matter as much to the former person as it does to the latter?

Dynamics are way more complicated than an exchange like this, I would argue. Thinking of them in terms of an equality of exchange may not be the best lens in the first place.

To me, the phrase of power exchange is just fine for this reason. A person can exchange some power of some subset of their decisions to another person for a bunch of reasons. I don't think the word "exchange" means something of "equal value" has to be exchanged. It is also not a zero sum game. It is possible for people to exchange things that by one metric are not of equal value, but both people are happy to receive what they did for what they gave up and would consider the exchange to be of good value to them. Is there a better term to use? Maybe...but would that phrase offer more utility at this point? Doubtful.

Valuing your relationship more than words can express is a feeling I can certainly relate to. And I definitely agree on the importance of effective communication. Where I would say I disagree is on the importance of particular labels. The labels really only have to be good enough. Trying to capture things with ever more appropriate labels leads to a slippery slope that I would argue hinders communication, rather than improve it.
4 months ago
DaddyDrago{LilAmethys} - Thank you for this perspective!
You make some fine points, especially regarding exchange being equal. I had not looked at things quite this way before and I greatly appreciate the different way of seeing things that simply refute how I can get 'stuck' seeing a thing.
4 months ago
Morley​(sub female){Max Sterne} - DD as always, you have my head spinning. My Daddy and I were just talking about this tonight. We have oft spoke about the elusive "Total Power Exchange"

My 3 cents 😉

Power vs Control is what in my opinion this is about. If you will, please let me explain....

My Corporate brain goes to this: CEO has ALL the power, yet the Board of Dirsctors "control" the CEO. I've seen in my vast life a corporate coup! That's where people (company bigwigs if you will) come together and take control over power! Not the other way around.

Now for me personally, i have the "power" of my finances, yet I am willing to give that "control" to my Sir. I'm NOT giving Him the "power" over them, no one other than my Power of Attorney (another debatable topic 😉) , can take "control" of that, unless given.

So, in my view it's a "control" exchange. I do and have the power of most things in my life, but do I GIVE that "control" to another is the question!

And the "No child, regardless of their value, gives more than their parent. It is simply a fact." Is very untrue! But, I understand the use of it here! Just had to say! ❤️
4 months ago
PlutoOrange - Thats nice to spread control and power. In that regard S has a power and D has a control of it
4 months ago
Heero​(dom male) - I like this idea. It can give some insightful nuance to a dynamic. I might steal it to explain something in the future 🙏🏽

I also think this idea would shed some light on a recurring debate I see on here: "Who has more power, the Dominant or the submissive?" (I don't particularly think wrestling with this question has much utility, once you have things like SSC in place, but it probably has more utility than arguing about labels.) It may be useful for some Doms and subs to know about so that exploitation doesn't occur.

But that being said, I don't think things would change all that much if you were to change the name of the position from "Power of Attorney" to ... "Controller of Asset(s)(?)". Aside from the annoyance that would ensue in updating paperwork, the world would not move forward to any measurable degree by changing the label. It is way more to understand WHAT the position does than the title of the position per se. The title only has to suggest what the position may do to some vague degree. But you can always delve deeper into the particular job description afterwards. If you say you're giving "power" to someone vs giving "control" to someone, most people would consider this to be synonymous.

There are definitely situations in which a label change can be helpful! I just don't think that would really apply here.

In terms of the quote about the child, I think it would depend on things like the age of the child and the family situation. But yes, I also get what was trying to be communicated here. ❤️
4 months ago
DaddyDrago{LilAmethys} - You are welcome for the brain spinning!? 😂

You may be right about control. I do not fully resonate with the idea.....but I do not disagree from your lens. I can see the merit in it. I would simply need to sit with the idea a bit and let that one marinate!
My initial response is control is wielded by the one who has power. But you make a very solid and correct in my lens point about you have the power of your choice over any given thing in your life.
That brings me to beg the question, what is the purpose of the dynamic? As varied and multifaceted as that question would possibly be for each individual my base understanding of a submissives point of view would be to surrender their control where they could rest it in their dominants hands. Of course this is different for everyone as I expressed, and we all have our limits. That notwithstanding, up to the limits and boundaries a submissive would hold and express within the dynamic the goal would be to, presumably, over the course of the dynamic, relinquish more and more control. While they would always have the power to take it back should they desire, the ultimate hope would be they would not have to and would have no desire to do so. In that lens, control would shift diametrically towards the dominant and their responsibility.
The CEO and the board are applicable only in as far as a business arrangement as far as I can see. But if the goal of the board were to relinquish control to the CEO on a continued basis (such as would be represented in a d/s or M/s dynamic) while there is always veto power (the ability to take back what was given) that is equal footing with the CEO/dominant giving back or relinquishing responsibility for whatever reason.
I digress, your point of not truly resting power away to anyone but rather control is still honest. I appreciate that insight.
The dominant having power to wield that control brings me back to the initial idea of the writing. At least in as much as the dominant has to give more from the lens of responsibility.
However, your CEO and board analogy gives me pause to continue the idea beyond responsibility. Because, as you clearly and eloquently put it, you have the power and no one can wrestle that from you.
Heero, made a very convincing argument around exchange. It needs not be equal, it only needs to be equitable to the parties involved.

All of this is honestly giving me wonderful food for thought!
As Heero expressed, the phrase Power Exchange works because of this reason. It is what it means to the users, which will always be varied and unique.

You are not wrong about the child!
I could have been more specific and said infant. Even then, what a child gives to a parent by sheer existence is clearly a personal matter that cannot be quantified well!

Thank you for taking the time to give me very good food for thought.
4 months ago
aPeepingMom​(sub female) - Ohhhh, this is a lot to think about! So many good points made in both the post and the responses.

exchange (noun) - an act of giving one thing and receiving another in return

I give the control/power over me to My Sir and in doing so, I receive the efforts and effects of his control/power over me.

It’s like a gift exchange. In addition to the monetary amount, the gift you give to a person has your own time, effort, and thought. The gift they give to you could be worth the same amount of dollars, but the time, effort, and thought they put into it is unique to them. It could be more, it could be less, so the VALUE of the gift is not measured the same, it can’t be.

Every exchange scenario is different within your dynamic as well. The amount of time, effort, and anxiety that goes into me picking the three nail colors at the salon so My Sir can choose the color I wear is a far greater “effort” than him looking at the photos and saying “this one.” But the value of the control he has in choosing the final color is greater than the value of me choosing the color for myself.

So I guess I’m trying to say that I agree with Heero’s assessment that “exchange” does not mean “equal” - because it’s all relative!
4 months ago
SirsBabyDoll​(sub female){Pizza+☕} - "Is the child somehow less valuable?? Goodness no!!! In fact it is because of the value of the child to the parent that the responsibility is taken so seriously and what is given is so powerful and necessary. No child, regardless of their value, gives more than their parent."

I would be interested in reading how you differentiate between "value" and "worth" in a person.
4 months ago
DaddyDrago{LilAmethys} - In MY lens,

Worth is intrinsic and value is subjective.

A dollar is worth 100 pennies, 4 quarters. A dollar.
It's value to a homeless person is quite different from that of a billionaires of the same dollar.
It does not change the dollars worth. It spends the same regardless. However for one it can mean the difference between a warm cup of coffee on a cold winters night and the other just a dollar to add to the pile.

The worth of humans is intrinsic. We ALL have worth!
Certainly I would say, however, I value my children more than another human. That does not change that others will not value them similarly as I do.
The question I try to ask myself is, 'Where can I see the value in others?' Because it can be too easy to dismiss the worth of others simply because they are just another human. It is my heart to see value, not just worth. Worth, in MY lens, diminishes us down to what we can do or be for others. Value can be how we see another person beyond what they do, or their perceived worth.

It does not change the worth of a person as a human. But it does change the importance of a person as someone to value and not just their worth as a human.
Much like we see our family members, or friends, or partners. They are certainly more than just their worth as a human being.

Not simply for what they DO. But also for who they are to us. The pieces we find valuable. Which is certainly subjective. I mean, Amethyst values my heart, I certainly do not expect or believe others will or should per se. Certainly not as deeply as she does! My heart is shown in actions towards her, consistency, protection, love. She values those actions, more so, she sees the intention or purpose behind them. That is valuable to her. Even if she did not see the intention, or motives behind my heart it would not negate its value. Even if she does not reciprocate in kind or to the depth that I do does not negate their value. Her appreciation, acceptance and valued appraisal of my heart validates its value to her. While I absolutely find value in her appraisal, it does not change my heart's worth if she or someone else did not find it valuable.
Is my heart worth more than hers or anyone else's? On the surface I would say absolutely not! We ALL have worth!!!!
However, the value of that worth can be significantly more to others based on how that heart is expressed, or, pressed into service.
If I were cruel, dismissive, an asshole, selfish, self-centered, rude, brutish, manipulative how I am using my heart is less valuable to others than if I were kind, compassionate, understanding, gracious, gentle, encouraging.
Am I worth less as a human if I were to use my heart for evil than good? Many would say yes. A murderer gets less sympathy or holds less value in many others eyes than say a good person. I would disagree on a spiritual level but can understand on a societal level.
My value to society however, or to any others around me, can be absolutely measured as more valuable when I am not a murderer!

So also can be our relationships. The measure to which we give of ourselves (particularly) and of our hearts can absolutely be measured as more valuable than another's.
Call it a societal measure. Or a belief valued measure. Or a relational measure. It exists.
In the case of a dynamic someone leads, another follows. If I hope to lead Amethyst to opening her heart surely I must show her the example of how? I must be the role model. I get to show her the value of such by living such. The giving of opening my heart vulnerably would show a way of being and teach a way of living that either she found value in or didn't. If she found value in it, I would certainly be giving more, by necessity. Am I somehow more valuable as a person than her?
God no!!!! Absolutely not in my lens!!!!!
It would not change the reality that what I am giving by way of leadership is more than what she is giving. In part because she is not giving leadership nor is she expected to. If we are building a foundation as a team it is because I am showing her the mortar and bricks and asking her to partner with me to lay them.
Am I more valuable than she is???
NO!!!!!!
Am I giving more? Yes. At least in this particular example I am taking responsibility of leading. I am more responsible for doing so than her so I naturally give more, IN THIS WAY. That is NOT to say she does not give more in other ways that I simply cannot or do not. It is honest however that I take WAY more responsibility and give more to the leadership and direction of the dynamic. I must or I am not a leader.
IF I have authority. If I do not that is another matter altogether.
A ship has one captain. That captain is absolutely responsible for its direction and safety. The captain alone takes on the responsibility to go down with it if it should come to danger. The captains heart is to create a safe harbor for the travelers under their care. Even to the extent of saving them from perils by putting them in life boats while the captain hopes to stear the danger away from others.
That is simply honest.
Is the value of the traveler worth less than the captain???
Not to the captain!!!! If anything the captain sees their value as more than their own!!!
But the captain takes that responsibility on. It is a very large and necessary responsibility. Does that responsibility make the captain more valuable??? To the traveler whose life they saved I would imagine it does. To someone else on the shore watching the ship, maybe not.
Again, value is subjective.
The captain and the traveler both have equal worth as humans. No denying.
But it is also honest that we deem heros like firefighters, nurses, armed forces personnel, mothers, fathers, et cetera as highly valuable and honor them esteeming those who go 'above and beyond' a normal call of duty. Because they willingly choose to put their own life's aside for the betterment and growth of another.

In a dynamic where there is a good, healthy dominant who takes up the responsibility of the life of someone else. Who chooses to train, encourage, teach a submissive how to be their truest self at the expense of the dominants own personal comfort. Where the dominant chooses willingly to protect the submissive with their very life, including but not limited to protecting them from the dominants ego, and not bring that submissive to any physical, emotional, or mental harm. That dominant is giving more than that submissive.....at least in this particular way.
Is that more valuable? To that submissive I would say yes.
Does that mean the worth or value of the submissive is less than the dominant??? Again, I would say no. Not to the dominant clearly! They find enough value in the submissive to extend their heart towards the extreme.
As an outsider looking in on such a dynamic however, one could easily say and believe that the dominant is giving more security, protection, or stability. That would be fair.
It is NOT that the submissive is offering nothing. Or is not valuable. But they are not giving protection, that's not their role. They give in other ways that are just as equally as valuable. Certainly to their dominant.
But the value, as viewed from the outside can easily be seen as the dominant giving more.
Much like it can be viewed that a parent gives more to the child. Because all someone sees on the outside is the food bought, the diapers changed, the sleep lost, the doctors visits taken to, the toys bought, the love given. It is easy to look and say, 'The parent gives more'. And that to be honest from a value based lens because it is subjective. There is honesty that a parent is giving more materially to an infant. Of course I am not saying the parent feels that way. Because they see value others do not. And whether someone sees the baby as worth all that or not, does not change the reality that all children deserve love.

Is, then, power being exchanged in that dynamic?
Yes.
And no.
Exchanged differently. I look at it more as Power Authority Transfer and less as Power Exchange.
She transfers authority to me. I transfer power to her.
As Morley so beautifully expressed, Amethyst extends control to me. She gives me Authority. I hold the power in the dynamic of being the leader. I simply do, facts are facts. I hold all the responsibility for its success or failure through my leading. With that power, I use the authority I am given to transfer protection, security, leadership, guidance, example, authentic foundational truths with which to build her up. Nothing she has, will do, can give, or is her role. It is absolutely what I see as my role to give and take desperately seriously. In this I give more. She gives nothing here so it must be more. To her it is the most valuable thing. That does not negate her value. And her worth to me is more than anything I can give. But honesty is still honest, the Captain is asked to give their life for the safety of those in their care. That is not an exchange anyone traveling with the Captain will ever have to make. That is valuable. I dare say more valuable than what another will give from a bird's-eye view, or from looking at it pragmatically.

3 months ago
Literate Lycan​(dom male) - Spectacular discussion. I could easily sit here for hours discussing and reading thoughts from others on this. This is very similar to another trope I fairly well despise on “who holds all the power” in a dynamic (hint-hint - I feel a lot of wanna be individuals often quote “The sub holds all the power” - in which case apparently they didn’t exchange anything). I like to view this as two individuals of equal footing coming together and deciding on how to exchange power, control and responsibility. Nothing more, nothing less. Prior to an agreement, there is no exchange. Just two adults conversing. And when the exchange takes place, it doesn’t have to be equal - it should support what both parties desire and need in a relationship and dynamic, but the exchange doesn’t always have to be on equal footing.

I truly like you analogy of the parent to the child (in my mind in a good family dynamic). In the same sentence though, a good parent would never charge a child full price for anything. It’s doubtful the child could pay the price until they grow. They want the child to see intrinsic value so there should always be a value exchange (just maybe not fully equal). In the end, the parent wants the child to have an opportunity to grow. And the child still has the responsibility of learning and growing into who they are to be.

Thank you for such an interesting blog!
3 months ago

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