Refusal to Negotiate in D/s

Refusal to Negotiate in D/s

outsideleft​(other male) • Feb 16, 2018

I read everywhere, that D/s is an exchange - that the exchange is developed via negotiation.

I have been, informally, serving a Domme for several months now - I have raised the idea of a negotiation several times now, each time I am deflected with the likes of:

I am too busy at the moment

We will do that later

You are here to provide me with service (no outline of what 'service' means)



I do love serving this Domme, but feel that without a negotiation, it is not really an exchange of anything - it is all one-way.

I guess some will say, that I'm getting to serve - the service is not negotiated - it is imposed, because I have not participated in a negotiated service agreement.


I feel more oppressed, than submissive - I love feeling submissive but am not enjoying the feelings I'm experiencing in this dynamic.

I have not consented to nothing of mine contributing to the D/s dynamic - my exclusion is imposed as a dictate - an ultimatum !


Perhaps I'm answering my own question ???


I appear to be being treated like a slave, even though we have had no discussion on boundaries, consents to exchange ????


Very confused !

Be careful about becoming an accidental slave

MstrSol​(dom male) • Feb 17, 2018

Usually I would not critique another Dom because there is no right way to D/s. As long as the Dom and the sub are adults and they agree on terms, (and sanity regarding safety is observed) it is usually a valid D/s relationship. But, you would usually negotiate terms before starting to serve. If you have been serving this Dom for a period of time without any agreement on limits or clearly outlined expectations, then you are essentially acting as a slave whether or not that word has been used. Here is the problem I have with this, a good Dom or Master has the confidence to make it clear to the slave that they expect this kind of a relationship. (That is what I hoped had happened when you said there was an Ultimatum) But here it seems your Dom is deflecting your questions. That is not a good sign. D/s doesn't work without clear communication.

I would suggest having a very open conversation with your Dom and if they are unwilling to have the discussion you have to be ready to walk away. On the other hand, if you honestly believe you would not walk away even if your Dom refused to have that conversation, then you have essentially accepted the fact that you are a slave. Might as well make it official.

Orgazmo​(dom male){serenity m} • Feb 18, 2018

Very well put MstrSol. I would add the acronym SSC (Safe Sane and Consensual).

When a slave or sub is serving a Master or Dom (or Domme) There are things that must be discussed. One of those is limits, soft and hard limits. Another is safe words or safe signals.

Often people see something in a movie or online and decide they want to be a Master Dom (or Domme) without learning bothering to learn to do so safely, sanely and consensually. This is highly advised against and when it leads to people getting hurt it makes us all look bad.

Jaz13​(sub male) • Feb 19, 2018

I agree...there has to be a discussion.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Feb 20, 2018

Sometimes things just happen without being talked about. Happens with both vanilla and D/s relationships. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself. Can go pretty well a lot of the time. When you know each other well enough it goes well.

But of course like any other relationship you can have concerns about something. And when one is knee deep in things already it can get overwhelming. Leading to want to put talks off. There's also other factors at play. Such as wanting to "wing it" and see where things go for example. To let the relationship be simply what it is. This of course needs to be balanced out with bringing up ones own concerns in the process of communication.

I find the trick is to bring up a few keypoints. X concern here, Y subject there. It also doesn't hurt to state when the other isn't pulling there weight. If a dom isn't making an effort to be around I point it out. If they care they take note of it. Sometimes it's not obvious to see that someone cares because they're distant but that can easily be as much do concerns about being close to anyone at all rather then a lack of interest.

As for what is submitted that's a no brainer. That's down to you. You, yourself, give submission with any and all topics. Which can change down the line with the same people. To both be present and absent. If things are "up in the air" I'd simply play things by ear. If there's a lack of interest after an extended period of time I make it known. If there's a lack of D/s engagement then I make that known too. I could be making these things known and be heard while another mentions other topics that are unrelated to D/s. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'm not being heard and taking into consideration.

It's also about how topics are brought up. And at what time. Some people get tied up on their own affairs. thing is if that happens constantly then it's like everything other then you matters. In times like those I slip in a comment about it (in this case something along the lines of "I'd rather have the time" or some such) and see if the other party mentions anything. A first response could be a seemingly careless/sarcastic reply. Which I might treat with silence which obtains a more serious response. Though never anger. And never "forcing a conversation". If someone isn't ready to talk then it doesn't have to happen. Can't decide for them. Things like this will inevitably result in some small amount of distance which somehow has a way of getting people to be more willing to engage in serious conversations when they care. Though again they can as easily care yet be too afraid to take things "further". Fear silences tongues and all that.

Finally there's also the fact some people lose interest without meaning too. Not because they don't care but because they struggle. Even just talking about things can be difficult when you don't know where to start. Best case scenario? The dom cares and struggles. I've had a few like that. Worst case? The dom wants just a tool with no regards to the subs happiness in mind. Had a few like that too. The former tends to stick around.

burned​(sub male) • Feb 21, 2018

so just giving my two cents...(if it is worth anything?)...laughs....as a submissive myself...I agree with alot of the above posts.....meaning there has to be some kind of discussion?....some kind of expectation?.....if the Dom/Domme...has not expressed any....then what is going on?......what is the relationship?......as the submissive...you have feelings too....You are not just to be 'Used" as a tool. (just my opinion here).....but I would express my feelings at this point....(well I would have a few months ago?)....(seems like you did say the relationship has been going on for a few months)....and I would have expressed my feelings and confusion....straight up......(of course not being rude....but what is this relationship about?).......to be honest...I met someone many years ago....it was online.....the relationship was going well....I thought?......then the person had said something to me...that was a total blanted LIE.....I was pissed and very hurt....and ended it right there.
I do not hope this seem to forward....but Dom/Domme should have feelings to discuss and share with you...there should be some kind of expectation? or something from the Dom/Domme...(if it is not something that the two can agree on, hten what is really going on?).....after all you are a person as well..and can hurt and be disappointed...and be happy as well.

this is just my opinion, I do not mean to disrespect any submissive or Dom/Domme in any way......just my thoughs.

outsideleft​(other male) • Feb 23, 2018

Thank you all, you replies have given me much food for thought.

I am new to submission, and this Domme is the only one to offer an opportunity - I asked for a discussion again last night and was deflected once more with the same mantra 'I do not have time, my life is too busy'. I believe this a legitimate response, yet after 8-weeks, feel less inclined to accept it.

I am over 60 and frightened of walking away from what is actually happening, so am accepting what is available over what I fantasise about having - at the very least, I am learning a great deal about submission - but the learning is very, very psychologically and emotionally painful - more so, than I believe it need be.

8-weeks and not a finger laid on me, but I have become more patient, less self-centred, more willing to give, more restrained in my reactions, more considerate - I have gained these personality and behavioural trait improvements, but have been, it seems, given almost nothing in return other than '...the chance to serve me.'

It appears this is the totality of the discussion so far, I am to be available to serve whenever and in whatever way She requires - for the very most part, I have done so, but am feeling totally abandoned within this one-way dynamic - it appears that Her idea is that I should be feeling fulfilled by serving Her, in spite of stating several times that this is not the case.

I am leaning toward the consistent advice above, if there is no discussion, to walk away - one of the main reasons I've delayed doing so up to now, is because I have a history of walking when '...things get difficult.' Over the last 3-weeks, I have been learning how to remain in play, despite the dynamic being very difficult - this learning too has been remarkably valuable to me.

My history of few opportunities with significant others offers the probability that if I walk away, I am walking back to another extended period of being on my own - but what is happening is becoming no better, but at least on my own I am not being used/abused/neglected.

I have no complaints toward this Domme, I believe Her when She says She is very busy and has several people providing service for Her needs. However, Her argument falls over when, for example I was made to wait 45 minutes for Her last night, while She had a cup of tea with Her flatmate, but I could not get a 30 minute discussion.

Time for me to stand up and return to the pain of being alone again, I guess.

Taramafor​(sub male) • Feb 23, 2018

Let's think this through. For once I'm going to keep it short and sweet.

"Others also matter as much as you."

Now let's compare this too...

"Everything else matters more and so I can never make the time for you."

People that care and want you try to make the time even if it's difficult. That's all there is to it. Yes it can be difficult, no that's not an excuse not to try. In fact not trying is worse because then there's not even an attempt. From the sounds of it you're desperate because you're old. And I can understand that. I know loneliness too. But you deserve better. The sooner you put your foot down the sooner the situation is resolved. Be it talking the dom into making the time or moving on sooner to someone that actually tries to make the time for you.

I just hope it's a case of the dom being too afraid to look after you which results in distance. Had a case of that myself recently. In this case the time was made for communication and things went well. When someone can't even make the time for that...

Fyglia Wicked​(dom female) • Mar 21, 2018

"had no discussion on boundaries, consents to exchange" << this responsibility falls on those involved equality .

" so am accepting what is available over what I fantasise about having"

Taking what you can get to get something out of it than being unhappy you're Not getting your fanasty ?

rosethorn​(sub female) • Mar 22, 2018

its worth considering the longer you stay and are unhappy the less likely it is to find that happiness with the right person. It is not easy to be alone at times. I would also say that you do sound very neglected and its not being addressed, even busy people over the course of a few weeks take time for the things they consider important. Maybe put the ball in her court along the lines of: 'I would really like this to work however I am feeling neglected as I am submissive and not a slave we need to discuss limits and if this doesn't happen I consider it to be unsafe with lack of communication and if its unsafe I wont play as you are not aware of what I actually consent too' that way she knows she needs to make that time available and make it a priority, regardless of age we all deserve to be content. I do hope this goes well or you find someone who meets your needs xx