Consensual Psychological Play?

Consensual Psychological Play?

alphawolfishere​(dom male) • Oct 25, 2020

Last night, over a nice glass of Vodka and juice, a psychologist/friend made some interesting points about emotional trauma, healing and the BDSM lifestyle. I’d like to share a key question that sparked a great discussion...

“Is it ever appropriate for a Dom or Master to use a person’s past hurts to make them more submissive in a relationship?”

Personally, I’ve read a lot of profiles and have spoken to individuals who say they want to be exploited on every level—even mentally and emotionally. But is psychological play going too far? And is it ever possible that a person’s desire to be psychologically taken over comes from a place of hurt in itself?

I see a lot of hard limits out there but I don’t think I’ve read a profile that lists psychological play as a hard limit. And let’s be real, if the wrong person gets ahold of your mind, they could take you to the depth of darkness or guide you to a place of light and healing.

Power-exchange is one thing. However, mind-exchange is on an entirely different level.

I’d love to hear what you think about psychological play. Is it even such a thing as consensual psychological play? So many questions.

Thanks!

nuli​(sub female){Unkolared} • Oct 25, 2020

I was talking to a Dom (not anymore) and he once said what if I didn't let you see your children (most are grown one still at home) without permission. All because he wanted me to cry and be more dependent on him. I hoped right out of there. His reply to me was I really wouldn't do that but what if I did

I don't mind a mind fuck. That's part of a sadists charm. But using a past hurt or something that takes the sub/slave/bottom to a bar head space or a place they never wanted to go, in my book is messed up. How does a sub/slave keep the lvl of trust that's needed for this lifestyle if their Owner is going to do that?

nuli​(sub female){Unkolared} • Oct 25, 2020

Lol geeze I really need to drink coffee before I answer via my cell lmao

Re: Consensual Psychological Play?

tallslenderguy​(other male) • Oct 25, 2020

i think this is a great question/topic for discussion. Thank you for posting it.

i have a deep desire for psychological mind fuck as part of a dynamic, to the degree i will not call it "play" or engage in it with someone who views it as such. None of this is play or pretend for me. Which is not to disparage those who play, it's just not me.

Mind fuck, to me, is a more holistic form of sex. i honestly do not think we can separate the physical from our psycholgical make up, though i think few seem to explore or become aware of that part of their self? I.e., delve into the emotional and mental aspects of sex.

If the psychological is always part of the equation, then i think a parallel can be drawn between the physical and psychological. I.e., physical sex can be abusive, non consensual, rape. It can also be an amazing connecting and bonding experience, nurturing and consensual. I think the same can be said/experienced with mind fuck.

"“Is it ever appropriate for a Dom or Master to use a person’s past hurts to make them more submissive in a relationship?”

To me, it depends on the above mentioned criteria. What is the Dom or Masters intent? If it is rape, non consensual, i think it's abusive, wrong and morally reprehensible.

i do not think a Dom or Master has the power to "make [a sub] more submissive." i think each sub comes with their own supply of 'sub' (and i think the same is true of doms). i think a D/s dynamic exposes, surfaces and incorporates things that are there. I.e., the need/desire to submit is already there, the Dom or Master can surface and control it, and i think nurture and grow it, but i do not think He/She "makes" it.

i have experienced deep mind fuck with a Dom who lovingly and affectionately used deep past hurt in me and regressed me to a time/place where that hurt/harm began. A time and place where i began to hide who i am to survive. He showed His desire/need for that person (me) and it surfaced some of the deepest, most profound submission i have ever experienced... genuine adoration even.

It was an intricate and delicate dance, but i participated, my volition was involved.

i suspect that there were "past hurts" exposed on His side as well in the process. Because a Dom or Master may be controlling the process does not mean that the hurts being used are solely the subs? It can be mutual hurt being used by Her/HIm to connect and bond, to nurture both.

Re: Consensual Psychological Play?

Hypnotist​(dom male) • Oct 25, 2020

Your main question seems to be -

My answer to that is it really depends on the negotiated and established dynamic between two people, and in most cases such things do need to be discussed very early on, and agreed to if it is something that may be a part of ones dynamic. If it is something that a Dom is interested in incorporating into play, and a sub is okay with it, then I don't see that it would be inappropriate.

Something that your question make me think of are those profiles I see around that are most often by people new to the lifestyle who say "I have no limits". In the majority of instances, one who wrote it has no idea what they are saying. They would never even consider that a Dom may try to use their past hurts to manipulate them.

RedKat{Not now } • Oct 25, 2020

Interesting topic for sure. Definitely would have to be consensual between the two but I am skeptical. I have had the unfortunate experience of meeting some really sick assholes and I could see how they would and probably have gotten “off” on doing this to their partner. Personally, I know what triggers I have but I am certain there is more under the surface, just haven’t risen up to the surface yet, if ever.

Re: Consensual Psychological Play?

slavebitchme • Oct 25, 2020

I would think to train psychologically to become more submissive. I would work more towards deeming or humiliation through corporal punishment. Just degrading verbally and enforcement through punishment should give better results. Plus wearing an ownership collar or brand.

slavebitchme • Oct 25, 2020

I would think to train psychologically to become more submissive. I would work more towards deeming or humiliation through corporal punishment. Just degrading verbally and enforcement through punishment should give better results. Plus wearing an ownership collar or brand.

Sasa​(dom female) • Oct 25, 2020

sex is not a physical act it starts between the ears, just like power exchange and everything else. Is the deep connection, the bonding experience possible without that? I don't think so. We deal responsibly with the one we love not matter what side of the slash we are and we cannot divide people into physical and mental. This is a unit, including all luggage ... and show me one here who doesn't have scars. A good mindfuck has a lot of colors and is wonderful if both are open and trust each other. Would it make someone more submissive? I don't think so. Same for hypnosis or any other form of conditioning.
Emotional or psychological play on purpose might be something different ... it could inspire negative and cathartical but also purifying emotions. I read about it and think it should have very tight limits, not to talk about the level of trust and responsibility. I would avoid it, not because I am afraid I cant hold my partner, but we all have mines. As @tallslenderguy said: It is a mutual. What if the person who controlls the process cant do it anymore...

Re: Consensual Psychological Play?

ursa​(sub female) • Oct 27, 2020

What a great question.
I love the idea of psychological play, but of course, it is a kind of play that is tricky to ensure the safety, sanity, and consent of. I think the answer to your question is... sometimes ;p

If I have a word that triggers me, say, a nasty name that might bring up a bad memory, or a plethora of bad memories... It can hurt to use that word with me. It can hurt more than any whip. Without proper consideration, I think even things like wordplay could be psychologically destructive to someone with a certain mindset, and the submissiveness and vulnerability that a sub may present in a dynamic could invite nonconsensual psychological play in a way that neither party may be conscious of. However, when given the proper consideration, proper psychological "after care," and with proper communication, that same scenario can be amazing and freeing for the submissive. Perhaps I can reclaim the name or experience that hurt me, give it a new meaning because my Dom has made it safer (and sexier ;p) territory. It's still a "trigger," but it now triggers pleasure and submission instead of anxiety and woe. Even outside of wordplay, I think other forms of psychological play can be as "appropriate" as any corporeal play.

However, I think psychological play is much more difficult to ensure the safety of.
Say your submissive broke their left arm when they were a teenager. You can still play with it, still tie up her hands, but you should know to be gentler with that side. Depending on how well that wound has healed, maybe it would even be fun to use that weakness to your advantage in a scenario. Perhaps even a gentle touch or holding on that arm grabs her attention in a way that makes her feel instantly weaker and more vulnerable. Well... the wound is old, and you didn't push her hard enough to break it, and now she's cowering before you. You both already know she enjoys feeling vulnerable and weak before you, she's told you she likes the way it feels when you grab that arm... So what's the problem with grabbing her left arm? What would be wrong with applying a similar touch to a healing mind?

The biggest problem is you can't see it. There's no perfect x-ray of our minds to tell if you accidentally went too far one night, either. Your sub might have wounds she doesn't even know she has. She might not be as healed as she thinks she is and even that gentle touch breaks her. What might be a tame psychological paddling for one submissive could be akin to being flayed alive for another. If a submissive knows their mind well enough to know their psychological limits as well as a masochist knows their body and corporeal limits, then I believe the remaining question would be if the Dom knows how to properly wield the psychological "whip," so to speak.