Submissive verses Slave

just for you • Feb 29, 2024

Differences:
Both have limits. For the submissive the dominant stops at the limits of the submissive. For the "slave", the submissive selects a dominant who has more limits than the submissive and, in effect, has "no limits" as far as the master or mistress is concerned and will not find those limits normally. Could those limits be found? Of course, but that's the risk. The crazy thinking is the one who thinks that M/s thinks the s means submissive when it really means slave. If the s is to mean submissive then the real term is D/s.

Re: Sub vs slave

I'mME • Feb 29, 2024

Twinkle Eyes,

You are welcome. After I apologized in my comment, the rest was in general to the Cage members. Not you directly.

CageOwner​(dom male) • Mar 1, 2024

submissives / slaves the age old discussion their is plenty of articles about it.

The point I am going to make is subject adjacent:

There is so many terms that get used incorrectly, or semi-correctly or mean different things to different people that I have made a habit of double check and triple check in the get to know phase when someone self declared as “this or that” and is into “this or that”.

Another very good example is TPE. I have encountered definitions that ranged from “no limits, no tights, for live, signed contract” to a little thinking it means Daddy picking out the color of her socks every morning.

Yeah, few things are more dangerous than people thinking they know what they are talking about when really they don’t.

So, wether I get contacted by a “sub” or “slave” it will take a detailed discussion what that means in her case.

sweetcheekz • Mar 5, 2024

I'm really not going to get into this debate with my personal opinion on the matter. I only want to say that I feel like I am somewhere in the middle of these two because of my past experiences in both roles. Maybe they are not interchangeable as debated, but I feel like there may be an in between.

TwinkleEyes • Mar 6, 2024

I feel that who we are in a dynamic has a lot to do with the D type. What they bring out in us, their strengths/weaknesses, how the dynamic is lead, and so on. Happy healthy journey.

Nitrev​(dom male) • Mar 7, 2024

I've had a number of experiences to mention and how it's shaped my view on the matter.

I think of it like a spectrum where on one end is a functionally vanilla relationship with kinky sex and on the other is slave archetypes like object roles, kajiras, bimbos, etc. Where the line is drawn between sub and slave is a sorites paradox. The short version of sorites paradox is how main grains of wheat does it take to make a heap: the line between heap and not heap is unclear and has to be drawn arbitrarily somewhere. Similarly, there is no clear line that separates submissive and slave, hence everyone draws their own line and debates about where it should be.

A slave, to me, is a deeper level of submission, providing more service beyond just submissive but also more control. Slaves rely on their Doms to manage their lives: that manifests in the forms of structure, routine, decision making, and even managing assets for some. Submissives want play and some structure, but not to the degree of service that a slave does. Submissives may seek structure in their Doms, but outside of the dynamic they are still their own functioning person with their set of responsibilities and vanilla, professional life to keep track of. Going back to the spectrum, It's about the degree of humanity vs. objectivity you want as well as the degree of control you are willing to give up. For me, I want a slave because I want a lifestyle bdsm household, and a slave would be someone who gives me the control and subservience I need to lead them our endeavor to make the home better.

There are people that don't know the differences, on either side of the slash, as well as people that just don't know what they are. Categories can help to mainline the conversation about what our identities are and what all we would be interested in, but they also lose details and people can have varying ideas of where the line is drawn between submission and slavery. In addition to that, there are more people still who would categorize as lifestyle slaves but **don't like that word/don't like being called a slave**. Things to consider.

Instead of asking if someone is sub or slave and leaving it at that, you should expand on the answer. At the end it's just a label unless you've defined it, so get into the specifics of what all you're looking for, really explore the services, virtues, and structure that you want to have in your relationship. You should always expand on your interests anyway: outside of the conventional sub and slave are littles, pets, objects, kajiras, bimbos, etc. Other roles that don't get mentioned as often that someone either may identify as or doesn't know about yet, but whatever role and way in which you choose to be addressed, what matters in the end is the kinks and services you all agree to provide for each other

The other thing I want to mention is that asking someone if they are sub or slave is not the benign question you think it is at face value. There is a lot of information you can gather from that answer: you can gauge their interest in talking at all, you can see bit of how they conduct themselves: do they have an ego about the question? Do they have the humility you want in a slave? How knowledgeable might they be in d/s to have a difference? How do they see themselves? And expand from there.

People can even be asking it in bad faith:
- applying misdirection to directly asking if someone is interested in a dynamic
- asking it just to go through the motions without the conclusion leading anywhere
- asking it because it sounds good and they want to mask their own lack of knowledge or experience

sissy rosie • Mar 8, 2024

It's a difficult thing to navigate and I do feel that it really boils down to personal preference, personal morality, and what sort of dynamic you have. I've seen the term used interchangeably in the past, and also seen arguments that they aren't interchangeable at all. I've also seen people who have what I would term a slave but use the term sub because they dislike the term slave for political reasons. To each their own.

And of course, I've seen accusations that bottoms use the term sub to get play. I don't have enough experience of that to comment.

One problem with the kink community is that everything is so individual... but that tragedy is also the community's triumph.

SnowMinx​(sub female){Owned} • Mar 8, 2024

I have questions on this topic
I know answers will vary, but im interested in the general consensus. I hope this is okay Twinkle!

Would being 'owned' equate to being a slave? Or is a submissive classified as being owned as well?

Is a Master/slave dynamic usually always 24/7 or can it be partial and only in the bedroom?

From my time here and personal interactions, it appears that majority of the (fake) Doms want their submissive to be a slave. Not that most understand it but they think it means they bark orders and we cannot disobey.

LABELS, LABELS, LABELS....

Morley​(sub female){Max Sterne} • Mar 9, 2024

Okay, I have my POV on this... You, again, YOU (both sides of the slash) determine, Who, What, How, Where, When AND Why what You are. It ALL falls within the dynamic you're in, considering, negotiating etc. Because let's be clear people... we are PEOPLE first, before ANY "title" and that's what I feel about the OPs question. There is NO vs. in this lifestyle. When people (again, that's what we are) communicate, message, etc. "TELLING" their subject what they ARE is ludicrous! Hell I still don't have a word of "WHAT" I am, and that's mostly because I don't like labels - but mainly because my Daddy, Owner, Master (DOM) is the one who ENCOURAGES me to be the BEST of me... whether that's His slave girl, His submissive, His toy, His kitten etc. Everything in this lifestyle is actually, in my opinion.... interchangeable because of the MANY LABELS, but we seldom stand up for the many different aspects/tendencies we have. I liken it to the: If all (fill in the blank) are (fill in the blank) then all (fill in the blank) are (fill in the blank) .

I hope the above helps you twinkle eyes, in that the ONLY difference between sub(Dom), slave(Master), pet(Owner), masochist(Sadist), little/middle(Daddy/Mommy)etc. etc. is what has been established IN consideration talks, negotiations, and in a dynamic... Which, I must say can evolve and change! That's the BEAUTIFUL piece of this lifestyle.



@Snowminx, in my opinion, and stated above, there are MANY different types of "owners". So to be direct to your question, being "owned" in my opinion is whe then D type (Master/Mistress, Dom/me, Daddy/Mommy etc.) has formally declared you as THEIRS. This can be as deep as a "collaring/ownership ceremony", to a token of ownership, to words spoken. It is clear by BOTH parties that there is an Owner of you, be it Master/Mistress, Dom/me, Daddy/Mommy etc. and NONE of that needs to be 24/7 (I often wonder if 24/7 is even attainable - but that's not here nor there )

Back to original post...

In any case/situation... my opinion is to be WHO you are, be OPEN to WHAT you may be, and above ALL, be honest of what is and isn't you as you feel, even in the little moments.

Again there is NO vs. There really is only WHAT are YOU feeling, believing, wanting and NEEDING!!!

TwinkleEyes • Mar 9, 2024

For me personally I know I am a submissive with slave and maso tendencies. Whom I’m with, length of time, what they bring out in me, decide the type of dynamic.

For myself in a LTR as a submissive I would turn slave. Not sure that will ever happen. It may though. That kind of thing would take years if not a decade at least and a lot of trust.