Who has the right?

[quote="dollMaker"]

Thank God you’re here to speak for them. Jesus Christ dude. This is why trans people in the US are worse off than they were even under Trump 1.

As someone who worked for years in civil rights and interviewed many trans people who experienced discrimination tell me their tragic stories…. I can guarantee that they would tell you that your extreme aggression is not helping. Chill Out!!!

You’re not persuading anyone. You’re only pushing people who are in the fence further away. And at the end of the day. We need their vote to make things better for trans people. Please please! Stop thinking about how you can be righteous and think more about what is effective in achieving trans rights.

❤️‍🔥 “let bygones be bygones” is a way of forgiving and moving on. It’s important to know that we need to do this and move forward without holding a grudge. You are grown adults! Everyone has an opinion, whether we like it or not. We can listen to people, but we should just share our thoughts and take them as they are, with a grain of salt. Fighting never solves anything. We are not in kindergarten; we are far past that stage. Let’s move on from this. Have some coffee and relax. Let your mind be at ease. Don’t have to answer to everyone, but be friendly. We are here to share, not belittle. Rise up and be better than this. That’s what growth is all about—causing more good things in this world. We love you. Please be fair to yourself/others/life. Peace, Namaste. Have a good afternoon or morning. Laugh and get a drink my friend!

Hmm...

Someday you can make a point / counterpoint and skip the caustic personal attacks, but I won't hold my breath. Do you even know L L outside of posts and replies in this place?

This forum is for adult debate and discussion, not cheap personal attacks on those one does not agree with.

That kind of horseshit gets threads locked before everyone who wants to can write their thoughts and opinions.

Smile! You're not alone, Doll Guy, many of the replies to O. P. House Tallion have been like yours.
However, caution is indicated. We wouldn't want other members to be afraid to share their P O V now, do we?
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As for the original question, this is my reply. It's pretty simple, really.


"Live and let live, but don't get in my grille about your choices and I won't get in yours about mine."

Let's hear from the Great Gatekeeper himself. I'm all ears. You decide who is right and who is wrong. What questions are asked and who gets to answer them.

You also attack and malign people based upon your perceptions. You don't know me. But you write "your people". Which people are they? I do celebrate religion. I wouldn't expect you to understand there are more than one type of people who say they celebrate religion, while there are many who hide behind it. I don't cotton to people who use religion to persecute others. Just like I don't cotton to those who use their choice in lifestyle to attack others.

As I've indicated, the OP asked a question. I don't know him or his intentions. Instead of attacking, maybe just let someone else answer. Or no one answers and maybe he gets the message that his question wasn't well received by his intended target.

We all have a different perspective on what the lifestyle means. We all have different views on what is reality. And we all communicate in our own unique and sometimes fucked up ways. Also, we can all learn from each other. We close our ears when we feel assaulted. Take a breath and consider how we can resolve this in a peaceful manner so it's a good conversation for all.

Obviously, this is a topic that some people do feel quite passionately about and have some personal experience with that inform their opinions and feelings. There have been several thoughtful responses, so I won't add my own to what has been said or advised already. OP, given some of the replies you've received so far, has your question on why being treated based on how we we feel and identify (whether it be trans or otherwise) is meaningful and matters been sufficiently answered?

In addition to what has already been articulated, I will also say, that we as a species continue to evolve. While names and identifiers help our brains organize things in our heads and give name to things we deem important, it is my personal belief that we are not meant to fit in tidy boxes, at least not for long. With each generation we push more intellectual boundaries, seek a deeper understanding of ourselves and our desires, and with hope, are able to embrace what we discover.

Personally, I get dollMaker's aggression. OP's posts give off a Carlson-like "I'm just asking questions!" vibe. You can only give that the benefit of the doubt so many times before your patience runs out.

Every human born has the right to exist and grow, thrive even.

Whichever way they wish to live that life is up to them. More or less.
In regards to MtF, there are certain things that should be kept for humans born as female. For example, some health services. Breastfeeding babies definitely one of them but many more.

As soon as I read the words, right wingers, Christian conservatives, terfs... bla bla bla oh and the last poster, Carlson?
I'm not American or Trans for that matter but spouting all that terminology does your fight for the trans folk, absolutely no good.

Gatekeeper? Nope, peoples perception of that is wrong.

I have stood up to racist and racism on this site, and been branded a white knight (which is ironic given the topic) for calling it out, and I was attacked for doing so, no surprise there, and I have skin in the game regarding trans people, a topic I won't take lectures from people who have not got a clue about it, about trans people's lived day to day experience, which I do - and yup I have been attacked for robustly talking about this before and now again.

I have taken part in vigils because a trans person has been murdered - for being trans, marched where I live to defend trans peoples rights to exist, to have access to healthcare that is appropriate to them, to be free to live as they want, to take part in sports, all walks of life freely, to have the same rights as CIS people - and this includes in kink/bdsm spaces were bigotry exists as well. Trans men are men, and trans women are women, its that simple. This is a hill I will die on, and I will not stand by and watch people with an obvious agenda, to come off with, I am just asking a question BS. Thats not gatekeeping, but I am not surprised you see it that way. Thing is it is no ones right to be asking questions about peoples right to exist, that they should have to justify that, who they are, and whether they have medically/surgically transitioned or not, fully or not, what their genitals are is no ones business but theirs, and by doing so try to suggest that value is greater to be that way than not.

This is about peoples lives, lives that all over the world are being wiped out, and that is fact. I am being careful not to get to political here, but in certain countries, governments are going out of their way to wipe trans people out, that is fact. To stop them getting healthcare, banish them from sports, military service, to stop people using the toilet, and I could go on, very much like the attacks on gay people back in the 70s and 80s. Those attacking me for speaking up don't really give a damn, about this topic, they just see an opportunity to have ago at me, again, and its personal.

I am really not surprised I am being attacked, for robustly, yet, considering the energy at play here, and the topic, fairly politely (and I really am, but not surprised folks think I am being super aggressive), much more so than it warrants, stating what I know to be the case, because I do know about these things from my own life experience, and that of the trans people I call friends, and have and am romantically involved with. Did I ask them these sorts of questions? Nope. The answers available in books about the topic, on trans peoples blogs (those who have the spoons to try and educate ignorant/hateful people), on websites all over the net, and of course the hatred from those that want to wipe trans people from existence is also available, pretty much everything one gets these days in the media and as government policy. What I have said earlier has been ignored, and again I am not surprised.

I am going to bow out of this now, because this has played out exactly how I knew it would, and how it has in the past, it doesn't matter how the discussion is done, no approach works in the light of how trans people are viewed these days. So I will go off, and look for nuts now, as winter is coming.......

HeyHey trans* person here,

first of all im sorry for my english its my second language ^^

And just to clarify im talking from my understanding of things, other queer people maybe have a different understanding, or experience not trying to talk for other people here.

So there already were some very true responds to your question, for example the difference between sex and gender
There are a lot of biological factors that makes us categorize someones sex.

genitals (penis, vulva, vagina, uterus, scrotum, prostate,...) are only one of it, they come not only in different shapes and colours but also in different combinations, since there are not only external but also internal structures.

Then theres hormonal variance testo and estro are not the only sex defining hormones, there are some more and there are people that would get categorized biologically as male that have higher estrogen than most cis-women do.


When it comes to gender it can be a little bit more difficult to understand.
In the western christian world, exists the belief, that only two gender male and female exist and that gender is bound to the sex. (some call this cisnormative)
taking a step back from that we can see a lot of variance in expressing gender in different cultures that are widely accepted in those cultures.
The cisnormative world view was pressured on a lot of cultures during the Ma'afa and colonialist cruelties.
But also in this thousand year long tradition of cisnormativity there was variance in expressing gender, very early on it was just mostly erased from history to fit the cisnormative belief.
Gender is not only a matter of feelings, but identity. Its not something you can decide to shake off, or put aside. You can actively supress it, and feel absolutely shitty with yourself to the point, that people harm themself.

Having said that:
What is your question?
"the right to be treated simply based on feelings" what do you mean? Do you wanna be regularly spat at in public (unconsensually lol) are be talking shit at, or be killed for who you are?
"expects everything a female has"
Most people transitioning know that their transitioning lol, we know that we are not cis-women
thats a weird idea that you have in your mind, of us being like: look im wearing a dress now serve me a life and identity of somoeone who was born a woman on a plate.

What is that supposed to mean? And what does it change regarding your behaviour? You dont need to understand the full gender-identity of someone in front of you. You can always choose to simply not be a dick about it. We don't owe you an explanation and still a lot of my siblings will give you one if youre asking genuine open-minded questions. But there is nothing wrong with those who don't.

So if you meet us just be like "Hi how would you like to be called" And than move on to having a conversation
Just dont be a dick

cya ^^